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Scottish Independence ...

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This young lad's leaving Scotland before the referendum ruins his future's. John West know's what's best.

Is the salmon fishing better elswhere. Dex?

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Give us Independence and Scotland would be one of the richest countries in the developed world; the UK drags us down.

http://fullfact.org/...nd_economy-3239

Maybe it will. Maybe it won't...

"Of course, whether these figures would be borne out in the eventuality that Scotland gained its independence would very much depend upon the terms of the break with the Union, so for now these calculations must remain speculative."

Time to stop posturing and faffin' about and get down to the nitty gritty, on all sides...:rolleyes:

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My God, a parcel of rogues right enough

THE SNP yesterday said it "looked forward" to a debate on the constitution, after the Orange Order revealed it is to campaign for the Nationalists' opponents at the next General Election in a bid to boost the unionist vote.

The Nationalists issued their statement as the Order, which claims to have 50,000 members, said it would lay down party allegiances even if it meant "getting into bed with Labour", in order to beat the SNP.

Members will be urged to back whichever unionist party has the best chance of beating the SNP in individual areas.

The Order's Grand Master Ian Wilson said the Order had to prioritise the saving of the Union above all other considerations.

"There is no question in my mind that the biggest problem facing Scotland at the moment is the growth of Scottish nationalism. And the order – as one of Scotland's biggest unionist organisations – has got to get real about protecting the Union.

He added: "The reality is that the only party you can do that through in Scotland is the Labour Party."

In response, an SNP spokesman yesterday said that "everyone can express their view" as part of the debate over the future of the country.

David Kerr, the party's candidate for the forthcoming Glasgow North-East by-election, added: "There is a national conversation and all groups are very welcome and that includes those in the Orange Lodge. I look forward to having that debate."

Michael MacMahon, the Labour MSP for Hamilton North and Bellshill, and a Catholic, said that he welcomed the support. He said: "I have a good relationship with the Orange Order. They understand the importance of the Union and they understand the threat."

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This young lad's leaving Scotland before the referendum ruins his future's. John West know's what's best.

the young lad never said anything of the sort!

(edited)

also i dont think the wishes of any order, orange or otherwise will make any difference in the slightest....who did they tell there followers to vote for in the last election?....did that work?

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Let's have some new clichés and less of the nonsense that the only people who care about Scotland and the Scots are Nats.

If the labour party cared about Scotland they would be more choosy about their bed partners

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If the labour party cared about Scotland they would be more choosy about their bed partners

I suppose if you are going to post inflamatory articles then you have to defend them. Tell me, how does all this further the case for independence? People want fact and substance from all sides in order to make up their minds, Everything else is just drivel.

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I suppose if you are going to post inflamatory articles then you have to defend them. Tell me, how does all this further the case for independence? People want fact and substance from all sides in order to make up their minds, Everything else is just drivel.

Inflammatory??? What that your beloved labour unionist party will cosy up to whoever? Since when has publishing a fact been inflammatory?

Tell me how this furthers the case for the status quo?

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cheap and baseless.

whilst your fellow Nat's original post attracted nil response from you or any any other Presbyterian Scotchman.

the young lad never said anything of the sort!

is that you putting things in young mens mouths again? :lol:

John West gave up a Law course at University to fulfil his duties as depute leader of Aberdeen Council and has now left Aberdeen Council to start a new degree in politics and history. He better be quick

The number of EU students increased by 17 per cent, from 13,585 to 15,930. This is an increase of 94 per cent on 2000-01 when 8,195 EU students came to Scotland

If his party succeeds in the referendum what will be the increase be in EU students from European cities such as Carlisle, Newcastle, Belfast and Swansea?

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Inflammatory??? What that your beloved labour unionist party will cosy up to whoever? Since when has publishing a fact been inflammatory?

Tell me how this furthers the case for the status quo?

I suppose it's too much to hope that this remarkable landmark in Scotland's history can be discussed/debated without insult or scaremongering. I have to say, it was nice to hear Alex Salmond on the Andrew Marr show yesterday really taking care not to inflame discussion on the issueof independence. Personally, I think other party members need to follow his lead. :rolleyes: The proposed timeline and process has been set out. Let the SNP and Unionist parties make their case and let the people of Scotland decide their future based on substantiated facts and information.

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This young lad's leaving Scotland before the referendum ruins his future's. John West know's what's best.

a tad sensationalist considering you then say

John West gave up a Law course at University to fulfil his duties as depute leader of Aberdeen Council and has now left Aberdeen Council to start a new degree in politics and history. He better be quick

which is also inaccurate according to the article your quoting, which actually said

He has announced he is to stand down at the election in May and intends to go travelling before deciding whether to resume his political career.

someone's trying to get a column in the daily mail me thinks :unsure:

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a tad sensationalist considering you then say

which is also inaccurate according to the article your quoting, which actually said

someone's trying to get a column in the daily mail me thinks :unsure:

:lol:

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We have a Govt at Westminster continually boiling Politics down to emotional crap - Let's cut gold plated pensions and huge wages for public sector workers, let's tackle benefits scroungers, let's cut red tape for business, let's make it easier for employers to let staff go, let's stop all this health and safety nonsense, let's stand up to the EU, let's tackle anti-social neighbours. I expect that from the Tories who always come out with crap like that when they are encouraging folk to vote against their best interests - I am so disappointed that Labour (a party that was voted for for decades in my house) are onside on the majority of things or at best are scared to criticise as they are so terrified of upsetting Mr and Mrs Daily Mail in a handful or marginal seats in England.

In a time of probably the greatest financial collapse of all time when millions of people are demanding fairness and there is a real oppotunity to shape the public mood Labour are just spouting managerialist bollocks while proposing to change nothing.

I think in the last few weeks when we have had this report about child poverty in Scotland http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/health/child_poverty_rate_in_scotland_reaches_1_in_5_1_2045713 and then the economy in negative growth we have the govt and opposition attacking the unemployed and public sector when those who caused the crash and the balooning deficit and then scrounged the most to bail themselves out in the aftermath are left scot free with the same bonuses and promises of more business friendly policies to help foster growth.

We've had decades to create a fairer society and it simply isn't going to happen unless something dramatic changes. Miliband turns up in Scotland to tell us the best may to achieve social justice is to stay in the Union while he watches the Tories and lib dems destroy the post war social contract and merely argues with them about the best way to achieve it.

I think many of a left leaning persuasion just think they only way to get there is to do it alone - Independence is not simply a question of how much will we get or what we will owe but perhaps give us the chance to build something different, something fairer. There is simply no option within the Unionist parties that isn't just offering more of the same.

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Nice sentiments, Sam and there's not much I would disagree with but the SNP really need to push forward with strategy, facts and information. People need to see how independence will benefit Scotland in concrete terms. IMV, people also need to see issues such as child poverty, housing, welfare reforms and employment given equal weighting, if not priority, over the independence issue. Action for a better Scotland has to happen now, within the current governing structures, not deffered to some point in the future when Westminster stops being bad to Scotland.

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I agree with much of what you say, samsc. It is an utter disgrace that so many are suffering at the hands of the government, in particular, I have been shocked at the way the benefits cuts have been imposed. Thousands of vulnerable people are being placed not only in difficulty but in danger by the processes taking place. Many policies need to be challenged.

Miliband seems to raise his head in protest now and again and I've seen Margaret Curran having a go but the current activities of the state are no less than shocking. I am less interested in bonuses being returned than I am watching the lives of so many ordinary and ill people being destroyed.

I think harper makes a very good point and the Scottish Parliament should be protesting on behalf of its people and making changes now. Nicola Sturgeon with her role in Health and Wellbeing surely cannot be unaware of the grave situations people are being placed in.

A move to a more left wing call for equality for all would stand the SNP in good stead. It would certainly gain them a great deal more support.

Key areas of responsibility for the devolved parliament include for example: Health, Education, Transport, Housing and Economic development.

It seems to me that too much energy is being expelled on the one main issue - the Independence Issue.

At the moment I don't have much time for any of them and I am appalled by the policies of the UK Government - policies that go unchallenged.

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Thank goodness Scotland has a viable alternative, Pat. I would just like to see the SNP making more of the authority they do have to drive through changes and improvements in domestic policy. The SNP have good results on many fronts but it is hardly job done and surely, improvements in domestic policy would deliver support for independence?

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Thank goodness Scotland has a viable alternative, Pat. I would just like to see the SNP making more of the authority they do have to drive through changes and improvements in domestic policy. The SNP have good results on many fronts but it is hardly job done and surely, improvements in domestic policy would deliver support for independence?

More and more I tend to think that the politicians do not actually know what's going on. Neither do I see many revealing reports in the newspapers but organisations such the Citizens Advice Bureau are overwhelmed by the numbers of vulnerable people loosing their benefits or having them cut.

We really need to see a response to this and to the rising levels of Child Poverty. If we're moving towards independence and a glorious future then that's fantastic but serious problems have to be addressed along the way. That's my gripe.

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There is simply no option within the Unionist parties that isn't just offering more of the same.

And what are the Nat MPs doing? Packing up?

What are they proposing in Parliament?

Angus McNeill is very concerned about putting the clock forward by one hour. Good for him. I'm concerned about his party's proposal to put it back several hundred years.

Angus Robertson's last contribution “To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received on the political situation in Balochistan, Pakistan following reports of killings and kidnappings of Baloch people.” You're an L out Angus.

Michael Weir is for independence but also would like a fast escape route just in case it doesn't work out.

"We welcome the commitment to HS2 and note what the Secretary of State said about the impact on Scotland, but will she now widen the remit of HS2 to allow immediate planning for extension further north and link-up with development in Scotland, rather than waiting the several years that it will take the hybrid Bills to go through this place?"

Pete Wishart only wants to put the clock back 100 years

" We now know that there will be an independence referendum in the autumn of 1914—[Laughter.] That, of course, was the year that the great war started. There will be an independence referendum in 2014, designed and decided by the people of Scotland. If the Secretary of State is so concerned about the legal powers for the referendum, why does he not just devolve the powers, through section..."

Eilidh quite rightly is more concerned about her constituents than scoring irrelevant points and promoting independence as the answer to everything.

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And what are the Nat MPs doing? Packing up?

What are they proposing in Parliament?

Angus McNeill is very concerned about putting the clock forward by one hour. Good for him. I'm concerned about his party's proposal to put it back several hundred years.

Angus Robertson's last contribution “To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he has received on the political situation in Balochistan, Pakistan following reports of killings and kidnappings of Baloch people.” You're an L out Angus.

Michael Weir is for independence but also would like a fast escape route just in case it doesn't work out.

"We welcome the commitment to HS2 and note what the Secretary of State said about the impact on Scotland, but will she now widen the remit of HS2 to allow immediate planning for extension further north and link-up with development in Scotland, rather than waiting the several years that it will take the hybrid Bills to go through this place?"

Pete Wishart only wants to put the clock back 100 years

" We now know that there will be an independence referendum in the autumn of 1914—[Laughter.] That, of course, was the year that the great war started. There will be an independence referendum in 2014, designed and decided by the people of Scotland. If the Secretary of State is so concerned about the legal powers for the referendum, why does he not just devolve the powers, through section..."

Eilidh quite rightly is more concerned about her constituents than scoring irrelevant points and promoting independence as the answer to everything.

I'm with Eilidh.

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who is Eilidh?

and why cant she see that if she wants to help her constituents fight cuts etc and achieve a better standard of society then she has to look at the bigger picture,

and that to help her constituents she also has to help her country as a whole?

or is she just campaigning for the local baths/park/shops or whatever when the issues that really effect peoples lives are welfare cuts/petrol/rent/taxes/wars etc etc etc

i do believe your supposed to do both

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