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Pat

End This Depression Now!

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Sensible book by Paul Krugman. Hopefully someone will buy Osborne a copy. It's only £9.99 and the advice from Krugman, a Nobel laureate in economics, is just what the chancellor needs.

Krugman explains that 'The British Disaster' is held up as just what not to do to when attempting to revive the economy. Instead with the 'Austerians' taking over the result has been a sharp fiscal contraction. He points out that the 'Confidence Fairy', expected to bring confidence in markets, has failed to materialise. He goes on to criticise the politicians attempt to make 'the economic crisis a morality play'. He points out that too many of them have a desire to be 'the grown-ups who say no' – an approach that is simply 'childish and destructive'.

Krugman probably talking too much sense for the nutcases currently running the show but he's but clearly not the only one who knows that it's no working.

The OBR also have their doubts. :lol:

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If they had listened to me from the start we wouldn't be in this mess.

Jimbo

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It's kinda easy to say what's gone wrong - cat could tell you that :P How does he think the economic crisis should be handled?

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Get some money flowing. Get some infrastructure projects, get some social housing built, create jobs, put some money in people's pockets so that they can spend it and create more jobs so people can sell them stuff. Then they can all go to the shops and people can produce things to sell to them or provide services for them.

Be even better if stuff could be produced for export. Apart from whisky.

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I've been hearing ken Livingstone say the same thing on his Saturday morning show with David Mellor (shudder). Ken claims, House building is credited with creating work (and homes) for people after the war and getting the British economy back on its feet. However, I've also been hearing the local councils are reluctant to stayed involved with social housing because of the high cost of development land and the long term cost of maintaining their stock. There are moves to increase social housing rents in line with market rates, in order to keep stock in good replair but that will only create cost pressures on other government budgets, such as housing benefit. There has to be a better way of housing Britain's poulation. The present system just doesn't work.

As you say, Pat, maybe we should have a whip round and send Osborne a copy.

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Yikes, Mellor. Can nobody find a scrap heap for this mob?

The other thing Krugman says as that it's not as if this has been the first recession. Recessions come hand in glove with capitalism but solutions have been found in the past. Okay, historical approaches have to be considered in within the modern scenario but if councils were given more funding for Housing Budgets then that might be considered a feasible contribution to growth.

What happens in Germany, where the majority of people live in rented housing?

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It's not as simple as that though, is it? They have lower unemployment than some other countries, but are still facing austerity and still have on average 5% unemployment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/oct/31/europe-unemployment-rate-by-country-eurozone

If so, why is that CL? What is it that Germany is doing differently that means they have lower unemployment? Should we be doing whatever it is they are doing?

Looks like they are doing pretty similar things to other countries, budget cuts, etc.

"Strong economic growth, buoyant tax revenues and lower unemployment have helped Germany, Europe's biggest economy, to reduce its borrowing despite the ongoing euro zone crisis, though at 81.5 percent of gross national product German public debt remains well above the EU's 60 percent ceiling."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100353656

So why do they have strong economic growth? Where are the buoyant tax revenues coming from? Are they making sure that big corporations actually pay the tax they owe, unlike Britain?

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"Costs"-----housing, health care, unemployment benefits far too much is what the Conservatives have always said, and if enough of the population agree the outcome will always be another Thatcher, either a Conservative or a Labourite. CannyL says Germany has jobs and was it not a strong organized labour force which vigorously opposed the auto industries attempted move to Spain ? China rules.

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Compared to the UK, Germany has a strong manufacturing base, which certainly helps economic growth, as does national consumption.

Canada is another country that does well. What's their secret, tam?

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I don't think we are doing that well......finance minister says we are doing very well because the banks are happy...banks no longer, and haven't for many years, pay interest, new credit card applicants will pay 19% interest, much of our manufacturing has gone to Mexico, almost all workers are now "contracts" with no benefits....between 2009 and 2010 the 100 top earning executives in this country received an average of 27.4% increase in earning....workers, and these included skilled trades, manual labour, line workers etc., received 1%...and still we elect Conservatives....many years ago some of us, thought to be stupid at the time, wanted the bigger unions to buy or start newspapers...didn't happen and the voice of the left has been largely silenced.

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It's not as simple as that though, is it? They have lower unemployment than some other countries, but are still facing austerity and still have on average 5% unemployment.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/oct/31/europe-unemployment-rate-by-country-eurozone

If so, why is that CL? What is it that Germany is doing differently that means they have lower unemployment? Should we be doing whatever it is they are doing?

Looks like they are doing pretty similar things to other countries, budget cuts, etc.

"Strong economic growth, buoyant tax revenues and lower unemployment have helped Germany, Europe's biggest economy, to reduce its borrowing despite the ongoing euro zone crisis, though at 81.5 percent of gross national product German public debt remains well above the EU's 60 percent ceiling."

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100353656

So why do they have strong economic growth? Where are the buoyant tax revenues coming from? Are they making sure that big corporations actually pay the tax they owe, unlike Britain?

You setting me an essay question, Lynnski? I thought you were the one with the text books and the answers. :lol:

I'm merely passing opinions. But seeing as you're asking my answer would be that Germany has achieved strong economic growth because of lower unemployment and buoyant tax revenues.

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I don't think we are doing that well......finance minister says we are doing very well because the banks are happy...banks no longer, and haven't for many years, pay interest, new credit card applicants will pay 19% interest, much of our manufacturing has gone to Mexico, almost all workers are now "contracts" with no benefits....between 2009 and 2010 the 100 top earning executives in this country received an average of 27.4% increase in earning....workers, and these included skilled trades, manual labour, line workers etc., received 1%...and still we elect Conservatives....many years ago some of us, thought to be stupid at the time, wanted the bigger unions to buy or start newspapers...didn't happen and the voice of the left has been largely silenced.

tam, maybe Hazel McCallion has some answers:

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all this "austerity" is government made...... Iceland got round it very easily so could have too but no, we use it as an excuse to make the poor poorer and the rich richer.

theres very little or no coverage of what happened in Iceland in the media for a reason.

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You setting me an essay question, Lynnski? I thought you were the one with the text books and the answers. :lol:

I'm merely passing opinions. But seeing as you're asking my answer would be that Germany has achieved strong economic growth because of lower unemployment and buoyant tax revenues.

Now you're just quoting the article I posted! B)

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Just picking up on your learning, Lynnski, I thought that would put a smile on your face and instead I get a glare.

I must check out what happened in Iceland in case Tig starts moaning.:lol:

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Canny Lass:- there are times when every thing I write is an exercise in ambiguity.....is ambiguity correct or should that have been ambiguousness ?.....anyway, dinnae you stop posting...mind am no sure thit Llynski wid glare.

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That's no a glare! How can anybody glare wi' shades oan?! :lol:

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Hidden glare? :lol: Either way, I doubt CL is in the huff, tam.

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Think you've got that right, rory. :-)

How about taxing everyone much the same but with a threshold so that those on hee haw pay hee haw but if most of us pay around 30% then 30% of millions will all add up.

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i thought Cyprus was on to the right idea kind of......but instead of taking 10% off everyones savings they should just tax those with more that 100k in savings

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Why should they? A lot of personal investments and savings have already been taxed, often at the higher rate of tax. Just because someone has savings (not me, btw), why should they be taxed again?

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if they have that amount of savings then they can afford it more than the ones who have nothing in the first place.

not an ideal solution i accept but better than hammering the poorest to pay off make believe debt

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