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Women Managers - Equal Pay

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According to a study by Chartered Managment Institute it will take almost a century for women managers to be paid the same as men.

Junior women managers seem to be doing okay and are earning around £602 more than the young male managers. However, the story is different when you look at the situation of women manages as a whole with the pay gap around £10,546. Female managers earn on average £31,895 and males doing the same job earn £42,441.

The CMI's director of policy and research, Petra Wilton, said: "While CMI is delighted that junior female executives have caught up with males at the same level, this year's salary survey demonstrates, yet again, that businesses are contributing to the persistent gender pay gap by alienating top female employees by continuing to pay men and women unequally.

"This kind of bad management is damaging UK businesses and must be addressed."

The situation has become worse with the recession and, as a result, it's predicted that the number of years it will take women managers to achieve equal pay has risen from 57 to 98.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14721839

Whatever happened to women's lib?

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According to a study by Chartered Managment Institute it will take almost a century for women managers to be paid the same as men.

Junior women managers seem to be doing okay and are earning around £602 more than the young male managers. However, the story is different when you look at the situation of women manages as a whole with the pay gap around £10,546. Female managers earn on average £31,895 and males doing the same job earn £42,441.

The CMI's director of policy and research, Petra Wilton, said: "While CMI is delighted that junior female executives have caught up with males at the same level, this year's salary survey demonstrates, yet again, that businesses are contributing to the persistent gender pay gap by alienating top female employees by continuing to pay men and women unequally.

"This kind of bad management is damaging UK businesses and must be addressed."

The situation has become worse with the recession and, as a result, it's predicted that the number of years it will take women managers to achieve equal pay has risen from 57 to 98.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14721839

Whatever happened to women's lib?

Shocking but unsurprising, if you get my drift. Into the bargain there are many more top jobs held my men.

What I find irritating is the women manager who sell the story that they made it so what's stopping other women. Some of the women managers I've had have been more like men than the male bosses and have done their best to acquire their traits. That includes arrogance, smugness and puffing thir chists oot.

I have had some good female managers who can call the shots, meet the targets and gain the commitment of their staff. I don't mean that the men don't do that but I would rather have a female manager if given the choice. They are more understanding of the bigger picture. I mean by that that sometimes weans are ill and grannies have to be admitted to hospital. The men seem to know less about these things.

The fact that there is still such a huge disparity in pay is a scandal. What does the European Commission or Mr Salmond have to say about this matter? They need to get ont he job.

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This information is flagged up fairly regularly but little seems to be being done to close the pay gap. Personally, I still think this stems from men still being perceived as the breadwinners in the family and therefore, needing to earn more.

The whole pay differential issue is totally archaic and needs to be addressed but there is still great secrecy surorunding peoples' actual earnings. One study a few years back showed that gaining accurate information about salary levels could be difficult, as men tended to inflate their actual earnings, when asked directly. :lol:

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This information is flagged up fairly regularly but little seems to be being done to close the pay gap. Personally, I still think this stems from men still being perceived as the breadwinners in the family and therefore, needing to earn more.

The whole pay differential issue is totally archaic and needs to be addressed but there is still great secrecy surorunding peoples' actual earnings. One study a few years back showed that gaining accurate information about salary levels could be difficult, as men tended to inflate their actual earnings, when asked directly. :lol:

It is pretty amazing that there has been so little done about the pay differential, harper.

I've been trying to think about whether I prefer a male or female boss but I think at the end of the day it just depends upon the individual. I've had rotten bosses of both sexes and good ones. Nowadays I just hope that I'll never have another boss.

Although, I hope the women catch up regarding there pay in less than 100 years. :rolleyes:

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Another averaging report, comparing ftes and using the differences brought about by women who choose to work part time or take career breaks for childcare.

Also from that same story but failed to be highlighted by many observors

......'However, Ruth Lea, economist for the Arbuthnot Banking Group, said older women were paid less because many chose not to focus on their careers.

'The fact that younger women are paid more than men is a clear sign that there is no discrimination against women,' she said.

'In many cases women choose children at the expense of their careers, and I am fed up with people lecturing them that they are wrong to do so.'

Women workers are under pressure to give up their jobs because of the growing cost of childcare, according to another study.

Insurers Aviva estimated that around 32,000 women have stopped work over the past year to look after their children full-time.

Some female workers were left with just £120 a month after the costs of childcare and work travel and clothing were considered.

Louise Colley, head of protection at Aviva and the mother of four-year-old twins, predicts even more mothers will stop work.

'Many families with young children face a challenge as they balance their income with the cost of childcare,' she said.

'As care costs rise, it is quite possible we will see more and more couples relying on one salary while the other person looks after the children. This is simply because they may actually be worse off if both people work.'

Mysoginist bitches, get on message.

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Another averaging report, comparing ftes and using the differences brought about by women who choose to work part time or take career breaks for childcare.

Also from that same story but failed to be highlighted by many observors

......'However, Ruth Lea, economist for the Arbuthnot Banking Group, said older women were paid less because many chose not to focus on their careers.

'The fact that younger women are paid more than men is a clear sign that there is no discrimination against women,' she said.

'In many cases women choose children at the expense of their careers, and I am fed up with people lecturing them that they are wrong to do so.'

Women workers are under pressure to give up their jobs because of the growing cost of childcare, according to another study.

Insurers Aviva estimated that around 32,000 women have stopped work over the past year to look after their children full-time.

Some female workers were left with just £120 a month after the costs of childcare and work travel and clothing were considered.

Louise Colley, head of protection at Aviva and the mother of four-year-old twins, predicts even more mothers will stop work.

'Many families with young children face a challenge as they balance their income with the cost of childcare,' she said.

'As care costs rise, it is quite possible we will see more and more couples relying on one salary while the other person looks after the children. This is simply because they may actually be worse off if both people work.'

Mysoginist bitches, get on message.

Certainly many women choose to stay at home and work there caring for their children. It's not always a choice though as you point out above, samsc. For many of them childcare is not an option because it's too expensive.

I wonder how many career women with the same qualifications and work experience as men are paid less? I think for many there would still be a gap with male managers being paid more.

I think that, in general, women tend not to fare so well in the workplace and that a lot of them work part-time because they can't get a full time job.

The end result, whether it is supposed 'choice' or decent terms an conditions at work, is that women are poorer than men.

That doesn't mean that men are the enemy just that, in terms of equal pay and opportunity, society is not moving along as it should.

This statement is an opinion not a fact.

"

'The fact that younger women are paid more than men is a clear sign that there is no discrimination against women,' she said."

Women do better at university and school so leave with more and higher qualifications. However, at the other end of the scale what the research shows is that women managers doing the same job are paid less. I think that possibly there is a bit of discrimination involved.

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...Mysoginist bitches, get on message.

Oooh, watch it, sunshine.

If female managers are paid less than their male counterparts for doing the same job then this is clearly discrimation. Where is the misandry in that, Sam?

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Oooh, watch it, sunshine.

If female managers are paid less than their male counterparts for doing the same job then this is clearly discrimation. Where is the misandry in that, Sam?

But they are not, as usual reports like this are deliberately mixing data. The public sector has a well documented payment progression, with each grade having a structured pay schedule. There is little opportunity within that for managers to be paid more based on gender.

The private sector is up to you to negotiate your pay deal, however, why would profit driven organisations choose more expensive staff or choose to pay over the odds. Its taken about 5 years for reports like this to finally admit young women earn more than young men.

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But they are not, as usual reports like this are deliberately mixing data. The public sector has a well documented payment progression, with each grade having a structured pay schedule. There is little opportunity within that for managers to be paid more based on gender.

Males are more likely to be further up the increment scale due to fewer career breaks, samsc. More of them will be in full time rather than part-time employment - the dominance of male managers in the public sector does not reflect the gender split whereby female employees outweigh males.

The private sector is up to you to negotiate your pay deal, however, why would profit driven organisations choose more expensive staff or choose to pay over the odds. Its taken about 5 years for reports like this to finally admit young women earn more than young men.

They may not be paying 'over the odds' but the lack of opportunity for female managers means that they may be prepared to accept less than their male counterparts.

Most women, including young women, have the perception that there is still a glass ceiling. This possibly influences aspirations. It's interesting that more young women than men opt for entrepreneurship, which they view as a less risky than their chances of career progressions within large corporations.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/21/women-glass-ceiling-still-exists-top-jobs

I come across quite a lot of young female entrepreneurs in the West End. At the moment I don't know any young males, who have recently started up their own businesses.

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Pat, you have answered your own question. Its nothing to do with gender and everything to do with continuity of career.

That certainly plays a significant part in women being paid less than men, samsc, and not just in management but it's more complex than that. Prejudice and practice both come into it as do aspirations and attitudes.

We know it's no your fault. :) There are some moves to put women on an equal standing with men in the workforce, however, too often these meet resistance:

A report by Pinsent Masons, the law firm behind Out-Law.com, revealed that only eight of the top 100 companies have pledged to ensure that women made up a quarter of boards.

http://www.out-law.com/en/articles/2011/september/most-top-companies-miss-deadline-for-women-on-boards-commitment/

I doubt these particular targets are going to be met and think that there's a strong possibility that women will continue to be disadvantaged whilst the men hold the power, as they do in so many quarters.

I think that there are gender issues, age issues, race issues, disability issues all affecting equal opportunity in employment.

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I think that there are gender issues, age issues, race issues, disability issues all affecting equal opportunity in employment.

I can only judge from what I see, what I experience and of course from what I can analyse. With regard to equal opportunity, disability issues most certainly, age also, though its a difficult one because it occurs at both ends of the age spectrum, race issues are a lot more complex and not as black and white (no pun intended) as made out. Gender issues, however, are done no favours by the type of report that issued last week. Career breaks undoubtedly affect your career, women on the whole because of child care take more career breaks than men, it stands to reason therefore, that there will be disparities between the genders when you homogenise the results. Like for like comparisons, young singles, actually show women earn more.

Now, where I do support the claim that there are gender disparities is at board room level. I have yet to meet a board that doesn't have at its core an old pals act. Yes they may bring in a new CEO or even a new Finance Director, but at the heart of many boards is a self serving clique. And, just for the record I have witnessed similar at female controlled organisations, none of us (particularly the higher up the tree we go) appear to like challenge and change.

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I can only judge from what I see, what I experience and of course from what I can analyse. With regard to equal opportunity, disability issues most certainly, age also, though its a difficult one because it occurs at both ends of the age spectrum, race issues are a lot more complex and not as black and white (no pun intended) as made out. Gender issues, however, are done no favours by the type of report that issued last week. Career breaks undoubtedly affect your career, women on the whole because of child care take more career breaks than men, it stands to reason therefore, that there will be disparities between the genders when you homogenise the results. Like for like comparisons, young singles, actually show women earn more.

Now, where I do support the claim that there are gender disparities is at board room level. I have yet to meet a board that doesn't have at its core an old pals act. Yes they may bring in a new CEO or even a new Finance Director, but at the heart of many boards is a self serving clique. And, just for the record I have witnessed similar at female controlled organisations, none of us (particularly the higher up the tree we go) appear to like challenge and change.

I think the dislike of challenge, change and what is perceived as risk are a major problem. If there were more women on boards, more women in government and more women in general at the top then things might be different. Will we get to know? Maybe not for another 100 years according to that particular report.

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