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Slut Walks

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Slut Walks have reached Scotland via Toronto where these events were set up in response to police allegedly voicing the opinion that some women victims of crime could avoid this if they didn't dress like sluts.

Michael Sanguinetti was addressing a class of 10 students on personal safety when he said: "I've been told I'm not supposed to say this – however, women should avoid dressing like sluts in order not to be victimised."

The policeman has since apologised but thousands of people are taking to the streets to protest about this attitude, including in London and Edinburgh.

Thousands of women worldwide are taking to the streets protesting against the belief that victims of sexual assault are themselves to blame.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/edinburgh/2011/may/09/edinburgh-slutwalk?CMP=twt_gu

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This is a good idea and it would be fine to see men and even the police participate.

I do not think that all men share the view that female victims are asking for it if they are dressed in what could be described as revealing clothes.

I am sure there are a lot of attacks on women dressed in jeans and anaraks.

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Well balanced view there, rory.

I won't be rushing to join any of the marches but I do think they are a good idea. Good on them. wink.gif

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Well balanced view there, rory.

I won't be rushing to join any of the marches but I do think they are a good idea. Good on them. wink.gif

I've been laughing all night because I when I was talking to my niece on the phone I mentioned these marches. She asked me if you "dressed up like at the zombie walk". I don't know what kind of outfit she had in mind. :rolleyes:

I think she was only half taking in what I was on about - we are all a bit distracted as my other niece is in labour and we are waiting 'on word'. :lol:

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I've been laughing all night because I when I was talking to my niece on the phone I mentioned these marches. She asked me if you "dressed up like at the zombie walk". I don't know what kind of outfit she had in mind. :rolleyes:

I think she was only half taking in what I was on about - we are all a bit distracted as my other niece is in labour and we are waiting 'on word'. :lol:

Seems like some of the outfits used by the Zombie walk gals are going to be recycled again. Remember my friends girl was wearing her zombie bride outfit to a "Royal Wedding Do",less the "blood stains" of course.

I hope everything goes well for yer other niece. x

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Seems like some of the outfits used by the Zombie walk gals are going to be recycled again. Remember my friends girl was wearing her zombie bride outfit to a "Royal Wedding Do",less the "blood stains" of course.

I hope everything goes well for yer other niece. x

Did you have a wedding march, Hingmie?

Good points by the way, Rory. It would be very satisfying to see men participate and police.

It's pretty clear what the walks are trying to address:

Slutwalk Edinburgh 14th May: The radical notion that nobody deserves to be raped - 2pm The Mound outside the National Gallery - Join the Edinburgh march to spread the word that those who experience sexual assault are not the ones at fault without exception. Not only as women, but as people from all gender expressions and orientations, all walks of life, levels of employment and education, all races, ages, abilities, and backgrounds, from all points of this city and elsewhere. Please bring your friends, bring placards and an attitude!!

What I am less clear on is how they feel this will be achieved. You can highlight issues but does something have to change? For example, with regard to police training, procedures in courts etc?

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http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/sos-news-columnists/Dani-Garavelli-Rape-debate-overshadowed.6772287.jp

From Today's Scotland on Sunday

THERE are some subjects it is no longer possible to have a measured discussion about. Immigration is one, abortion another. And, as the furore sparked by Ken Clarke's clumsy comments on Radio 5 Live last week demonstrated, rape is a third.

We have come a long way since the days when it was acceptable to talk about women "asking for it", when it was not illegal for a husband to force himself on his wife, and when rape accused were allowed to cross-examine victims in the witness box. Thanks to the efforts of campaigners, police have improved the way rape cases are handled and hammered home the message that No means No.

The downside of the progress these women have made, however, is that they have hijacked the debate. So vociferously have they claimed the moral high ground, that today anyone who strays from the feminist lexicon is immediately branded stupid, ill-informed or misogynistic. Meanwhile, those fluent in the language of rape are free to spout questionable rhetoric, with not a squeak of dissent.

Of course, Clarke should have expressed himself better when interviewed about his proposals to offer sentence reductions of up to 50 per cent for early pleas in rape and other cases. His reference to "forcible rapes" as "serious" was lazy and retrograde (though an examination of the transcript shows he views no rapes as trivial).

But dismissing the Justice Secretary as a bumbling dinosaur, and getting sidetracked by Ed Miliband's self-serving calls for his resignation, discourages serious analysis of a policy which may have real consequences for rape victims south of the Border, and will inform the debate here.

In any case, people in glasshouses shouldn't throw stones. Here's a short list of "facts" that those who condemned Clarke last week use to manipulate public opinion:

1) The almost universally-quoted 6 per cent conviction rate figure for England and Wales. This is misleading. While conviction rates for most crimes are calculated as a proportion of the cases which make it to court, 6 per cent is the proportion of total rape allegations. Calculated the more conventional way, the rape conviction rate is closer to 58 per cent. There may be an issue about attrition (why do so many rape cases fall by the wayside?), but the 58 per cent figure has doubled since 1997.

2) The insistence that 94 per cent of rapists walk free. This is truly offensive. It means that, while we accept that a proportion of those investigated for crimes such as burglary will be innocent, every man accused of rape is considered guilty (even if acquitted).

3) Some campaigners talk about jail sentences as if they ought to correspond to the degree of suffering experienced by the victim.

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Eweee, what a nasty article. ohmy.gif

Am I reading this right?

"The downside of the progress these women have made, however, is that they have hijacked the debate. So vociferously have they claimed the moral high ground, that today anyone who strays from the feminist lexicon is immediately branded stupid, ill-informed or misogynistic." angry.gif

Ken Clarke has apologised for making stupid views off the cuff and that will be dealt with within the political arena. This fool, whoever they are, pays a bit of lip service to the progress that has been made on the issue and then sticks the boot in in a far nastier way than Ken Clarke's badly thought out remarks.

So, what's your opinion on the article you have posted, Sam?

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Eweee, what a nasty article. ohmy.gif

Am I reading this right?

"The downside of the progress these women have made, however, is that they have hijacked the debate. So vociferously have they claimed the moral high ground, that today anyone who strays from the feminist lexicon is immediately branded stupid, ill-informed or misogynistic." angry.gif

Ken Clarke has apologised for making stupid views off the cuff and that will be dealt with within the political arena. This fool, whoever they are, pays a bit of lip service to the progress that has been made on the issue and then sticks the boot in in a far nastier way than Ken Clarke's badly thought out remarks.

So, what's your opinion on the article you have posted, Sam?

Dani Garavelli can be a bit of a shock jock journo, she might be a chief journo on SoS but she does like to stir it. I don't think its a nasty article, its deliberately provocative and in a way that only a woman could be in such a debate.

I think we all know what Clarke was trying to say, the hounding and twisting of what he did say does point to this being a debate that will be very difficult to have.

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Dani Garavelli can be a bit of a shock jock journo, she might be a chief journo on SoS but she does like to stir it. I don't think its a nasty article, its deliberately provocative and in a way that only a woman could be in such a debate.

I think we all know what Clarke was trying to say, the hounding and twisting of what he did say does point to this being a debate that will be very difficult to have.

Politicians need to be very clear on the points they are making, particularly with regard to sensitive issues such as rape. Surely part of the required skill set. :lol:

I'm not too sure that Garavelli has a complete grip on the issue:

"Personally, I think it's far from clear all victims want to be spared their day in court. Some, indeed, may find it empowering to testify. On the other hand, an early guilty plea would mean a greater proportion of any sentence being served as a convict rather than remand prisoner, increasing the rapist's exposure to rehabilitation services."

I'm wondering what 'rehabilitation services' that would be.

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