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They have just announced that some English Universities will be able to raise their tuition fees to between 6 and 9k a year.

Now, who in their right mind would pay up to 6k a year for a course like that?

I feel so sorry for our yong folk.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11677862

The plan has been welcomed by the elite universities, however, new universities have raised concerns including social mobility and sustaining university funding. They can only charge the top rate if they agree to fund more students from poorer households. I don't know how that works.

The move has also been criticised by The National Union of Students, who see this as an 'ideological move' transferring the costs away from the state.

Labour describe the rise in fees as "a tragedy for young people".

They'll be flocking across the border in droves. Mind you students living away from home will have to pay accommodation for longer as an Honours Degree takes four years in Scotland as opposed to three years in England.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2010/nov/03/universities-welcome-flexbility-triple-fees

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The plan has been welcomed by the elite universities, however, new universities have raised concerns including social mobility and sustaining university funding. They can only charge the top rate if they agree to fund more students from poorer households. I don't know how that works.

The move has also been criticised by The National Union of Students, who see this as an 'ideological move' transferring the costs away from the state.

Labour describe the rise in fees as "a tragedy for young people".

They'll be flocking across the border in droves. Mind you students living away from home will have to pay accommodation for longer as an Honours Degree takes four years in Scotland as opposed to three years in England.

http://www.guardian....ity-triple-fees

Shame on every politician who benefited from a fully funded grants system for not speaking out on this. angry.gif

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Guest larrytrooper

Shame on every politician who benefited from a fully funded grants system for not speaking out on this. angry.gif

Harper,

Am I missing something simple here?

Do we not through our taxes, actually pay for young people going to University?

Could it possibly be the case that there are far too many people at Uni., for some rather odd subjects? With respect some of the standards of the qualifications are pretty poor too.

Surely the courses should be set up so that only the best will gain entry to said course and if that is the situation, every generation will surely only have a percentage of people good enough to pass high standards. We are not all able to have such high standards, I for one could not have gone to Uni, nor had the ability to gain a degree but I will happily pay my taxes so that a brilliant youngster from our country can go and do our country good by gaining a degree.

I do realise our country is in a financial mess for a number of reasons but surely educating our next generation does good for all of our futures?

That is why the students should not be paying AT ALL. Personally, it would be beneficial if we gave them accommodation and fed them too, that would only be for those who could pass a stringent entrance exam, money or privilege would not get you in.

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Harper,

Am I missing something simple here?

Do we not through our taxes, actually pay for young people going to University?

Could it possibly be the case that there are far too many people at Uni., for some rather odd subjects? With respect some of the standards of the qualifications are pretty poor too.

Surely the courses should be set up so that only the best will gain entry to said course and if that is the situation, every generation will surely only have a percentage of people good enough to pass high standards. We are not all able to have such high standards, I for one could not have gone to Uni, nor had the ability to gain a degree but I will happily pay my taxes so that a brilliant youngster from our country can go and do our country good by gaining a degree.

I do realise our country is in a financial mess for a number of reasons but surely educating our next generation does good for all of our futures?

That is why the students should not be paying AT ALL. Personally, it would be beneficial if we gave them accommodation and fed them too, that would only be for those who could pass a stringent entrance exam, money or privilege would not get you in.

I think everyone who has the intellectual ability should have equal access to a university education without the need to take on crippling debts. It angers me that many of the politicians willing to approve this rise in fees were able to pursue their education and start working life relatively free of debt. I know lots of young, able, people who are missing out on this wonderful, life enhancing and life changing experience because of the fear of debt. In allowing this to go unchallened, we are in danger of creating further divisions and barriers for bright, able, kids from poor or disadvanted backgrounds. It is a scandal. angry.gif

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I think everyone who has the intellectual ability should have equal access to a university education without the need to take on crippling debts. It angers me that many of the politicians willing to approve this rise in fees were able to pursue their education and start working life relatively free of debt. I know lots of young, able, people who are missing out on this wonderful, life enhancing and life changing experience because of the fear of debt. In allowing this to go unchallened, we are in danger of creating further divisions and barriers for bright, able, kids from poor or disadvanted backgrounds. It is a scandal. angry.gif

Well said, harper. The barriers are certainly growing. The students themselves are raising concerns regarding this ideological attack on higher education.

The way things are going it's going to be only those who can afford to pay that will be getting degrees. Hellish little to do with the brightest and the best.

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I think we kinda knew this:

"Scottish universities have warned they could be swamped with thousands of students from England escaping higher fees.

Fears over “fee refugees” pushing out Scottish students were raised at a national summit on the future funding of higher education – held in Glasgow and chaired by Michael Russell, the Education Secretary.

Looks like Scotland is going to be viewed as the cheap option.

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/editor-s-picks/fee-flight-will-hurt-scottish-students-1.1068765

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More trouble ahead as Teachers' Unions see education being damaged by Scottish Government's agreement with Cosla:

"Ronnie Smith, general secretary of the EIS, said: “The deal the Scottish Government has struck with Cosla will cause widespread damage to Scottish education and will have a negative impact in schools.

“The budget-cutting agenda will lead to a cull of teachers on short-term contracts in order to create the impression that more new teachers will gain jobs next year.

“But recently qualified teachers, many working on supply or fixed term contracts, will be cast aside and left on the scrapheap."

The Herald

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Looks like the teachers are going to be the ones doing the tests.

Lindsay Paterson, professor of educational policy at the University of Edinburgh, said that as things stood, teacher training courses were "simply not intellectually challenging enough"

A new report, to come out tomorrow, is recommending that Scotland's teachers will have competency tests in literacy and numeracy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12163746

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North Ayrshire Council have come up with the solution of a four day week for Primary and Secondary School pupils as a way of saving money.

They are seeking to save planned £8.9m. A further suggestion is that the starting age be raised to six.

The latter plan seems to be the favoured option: "council leader David O'Neill said the idea of reducing the days in the school week was a "worst case scenario" and the council would be more likely to make efficiencies by raising the starting age to six, increasing class sizes or cutting the number of school buildings."

http://www.edexec.co.uk/news/1486/scottish-schools-consider-four-day-weeks/

Don't see how the four day week could possibly fail to impact on the quality of education provided. It would also create chaos for working parents and impose hardship on families having to cut their working hours accordingly or buy extra childcare hours.

There are other countries where children don't start school until they are six but usually the kids are in kindergarten.

Education takes up approximately 40% of Council budgets so difficult to see how cuts can be achieved without some changes.

There's a stoochie in the Highland area with cuts to posts of Classroom Assistants and also reduce IT equipment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-12379662

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The 4 day week was a diversionary tactic.

What do you mean, Dex? So that when the axe falls, they say."It could have been worse, it could have been a four day week."

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What do you mean, Dex? So that when the axe falls, they say."It could have been worse, it could have been a four day week."

They really want the weans to start school at age 6

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Hope this doesn't happen in Scotland. Sounds completely daft to me.

Reading test for six-year-olds to include non-words

By Hannah Richardson BBC News education reporter

Sharing a book Children who easily learn to read have often been read to from an early age

A number of made-up words such as "koob" or "zort" are to be included in the government's planned new reading test for six-year-olds in England.

The idea has drawn criticism from literary experts who say the approach will confuse those beginning to read.

The UK Literacy Association said the plan was "bonkers" as the purpose of reading was to understand meaning.

The government said non-words were being included to check pupils' ability to decode words using phonics.

This is the reading system by which children sound out words using letter sounds.

Non-words were being included to check that children were not just regurgitating memorised words, a spokesman for the Department for Education said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12509477

I would have thought that you could test the weans' ability to 'sound out' by introducing new words - real ones.

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I know Oxbridge have always been elitist establishment/s but this is stretching the gap that looks like becoming a huge vortex in the have and have nots in society.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-12381656

Pinched your post from Cuts thread, IonaW.

Looks like all the posh English universities will be going for the costly tuition fees. Although, some opportunities for the less well off.

Cambridge will give a reduction of up to £3,000 a year to students from households with an income below £25,000. There will also be other bursaries worth up to £1,625. Reductions will taper down to zero for students from homes with an income over £42,000.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355041/Oxford-follows-Cambridge-University-charging-9k-tuition-fees.html#ixzz1EXT3o2a6

Not that many 'poor' students gain access to these elite institutions but students from middle class homes may look elsewhere. Could this mean that the brightest will no longer flock Oxford and Cambridge?

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Meanwhile back in Scotland looks as though our students will be having to dig deep as well:

Today's Herald:

SCOTTISH universities want to charge students fees of £12,000 for a four-year degree under confidential proposals seen by The Herald.

A leaked circular from Universities Scotland, which represents university principals, proposes setting a graduate contribution for the first time at roughly the same level charged in England – currently £3290 a year.

Universities, which want to see the charge levied from 2012, do not support an upfront tuition fee and would prefer to see payments deferred until after graduation – and only payable when graduates earn £21,000 or more.

The document, which has only been circulated to principals, warns that thousands of well-qualified Scottish school-leavers will be turned away next year unless an urgent new funding stream can be found – or there is a reversal of public funding cuts...

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/secret-plans-to-charge-scots-students-12-000-1.1086258

The circular warns that potential students will have to be turned away unless an 'urgent new funding stream can be found'.

Sad situation for our young people - lack of jobs and university places.

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If re-elected SNP plan to hike fees at Scottish Universities for students from the rest of the UK.

Seems fair enough as they would be having to pay fees in their own neck of the woods.

http://breakingnews.heraldscotland.com/breaking-news/?mode=article&site=et&id=N0041181300290357766A

All good Braveheart stuff. There isn't an election in the offing by any chance.

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All good Braveheart stuff. There isn't an election in the offing by any chance.

I thought William Wallace was more for battle but know what you mean. Remember: 'Education! Eduction! Education!'

If you want to do a wee Labour Party Political Broadcast don't hold back G12 bloke:

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The National Union of Students have come up with some proposals for saving money - they reckon that a whole lot of students who have studied HND at further education colleges could go straight into second year at university. NUS Scotland think around £50m could be saved through this approach.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/students-set-out-plans-to-save-120m-1.1091757

Some already go straight into second year and whilst usually academically capable they can sometimes be unsure of the different expectations between FE and HE. I think that if this plan was to work then prior to entry such students should have the option, if not the requirement, of attending Summer School so that they learn the ropes, for many students that's what first year is about. So often students flounder not because they are not capable but because they are unclear as to what is expected of them.

However, I rather suspect that in the current climate of cuts that these types of ancillary services will be the first to go. Pity!

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i THIN SHE MIGHT HAVE THE POSSIBLE RESOURCES THAT IS WHY SHE CAN HAVE ASSISTANTS BUT I AM LITTLE BIT CONFUSED HOW SHE CAN AFFORD ALL THIS WHICH COSTS HER A £108,000 . Its not easy to bear . Thanks

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There's a bit of a stoochie going on at Glasgow Caledonian Uni as MSP Angela Constance, Skills and Life Long Learning Minister, has called on them to halt plans to cu 95 staff until after the election on 5th May. Quite rightly she points out that they don't yet know the funding situation.

However, Universities Scotland are unhappy about this interference from the Scottish Government.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/university-is-told-jobs-cut-premature-1.1094232

Surely they would be happy to retain staff, if possible?

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The latest proposal to cut down on the cost of a degree at Scottish Universities is to cut the four year degree to three years. James Fraser, the Principal of Highlands and Islands Univrity University has put forward and argument that the work undertaken in the first year of university could be carried out at schools.

The A levels in England are supposed to equate to first year university whereby English universities offer a three year degree.

He further suggests that there should be greater flexibility including online learning:

"Learning online is just as effective as any other type of learning, where it is appropriately supported. It also has the advantage of saving the student, and the taxpayer, significant sums of money.”

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/education/pupils-could-start-degrees-in-high-school-1.1094745

The Open University is certainly a very good example of how online study can be successful and seems like a very good idea for schools and universities to work more closely together.

It's about how they organise this to make it work.

Half the problem for new students at university is that they are not sure what is required of them and usually not that they are not bright enough. Indeed some of them arrive in their final year a bit unclear as to what a dissertation is. This is particularly true of students where study in higher education has not been the norm within their families.

You hear a whole lot about the incompetence of teachers these days but in universities there are also problems. Highly knowledgeable and experienced lecturers may know their subjects inside out but all too often a lot of time is wasted and students fail to gain good marks whilst they figure out by themselves exactly how their work is being assessed.

Some schools and further education colleges do prepare their students but a great many of them enter university at an unnecessary disadvantage. It wouldn't be that difficult for sixth form pupils to be taught analytical thinking and the ins and outs of proper academic writing. In fact no reason why this can't start in first year. Descriptive essays are all very well but they're never going to get you that high mark. At the moment there are too many students floundering about in the dark it's about high time they were all properly prepared for study in higher education.

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Scotland's university funding system is facing a legal challenge. Leading human rights lawyer, Phil Shiner, claims that the policy of charging students from areas of the UK other than Scotland tuition fees is in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights.

He believes that ministers in Scotland have 'misinterpreted the law'.

However, a spokesperson for the Scottish government explains that arrangements to pay tuition fees are based on 'ordinary domicile' and not nationality.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14607122

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Scotland's university funding system is facing a legal challenge. Leading human rights lawyer, Phil Shiner, claims that the policy of charging students from areas of the UK other than Scotland tuition fees is in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights.

He believes that ministers in Scotland have 'misinterpreted the law'.

However, a spokesperson for the Scottish government explains that arrangements to pay tuition fees are based on 'ordinary domicile' and not nationality.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14607122

I didn't know that European Union students were not being charged. This seems a bit unfair on the students from other parts of the UK.

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I didn't know that European Union students were not being charged. This seems a bit unfair on the students from other parts of the UK.

There are quite a lot of worries about what's fair, Canny Lass. The NUS is concerned that some institutions may reject Scottish students, while an RUK (other part of UK) student with lower grades could access a place because they are willing to pay.

Edinburgh intends charging over £9,000 per year for tuition fees. Possibly the most expensive place to study in the UK. £36,000 for a degree. Tempting!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-14784810

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