Jump to content
Pat's Guide to Glasgow West End
Guest tomtscotland

Should he stay or should he go ?

Recommended Posts

Guest tomtscotland

A moral dilemma.

He's apparently not got long to live.

He was convicted over the Lockerbie bombing - it has already been conceded that he has grounds for appeal and this is ongoing but it is thought he will not live long enough to see it through.

Whilst no decision has yet been released it would seem quite likely that he may be released on compassionate grounds. The final decision lies with Scotland's Justice Secretary - Kenny MacAskill.

The American State Dept has just said that he should serve his sentence and this would seem to be in line with the views of the relatives of American victims.

Does al-Megrahi deserve any more compassion than what he showed for the ones he is convicted of killing?

Does he deserve any more compassion than other murderers such as Myra Hindley who were never released?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A moral dilemma.

He's apparently not got long to live.

He was convicted over the Lockerbie bombing - it has already been conceded that he has grounds for appeal and this is ongoing but it is thought he will not live long enough to see it through.

Whilst no decision has yet been released it would seem quite likely that he may be released on compassionate grounds. The final decision lies with Scotland's Justice Secretary - Kenny MacAskill.

The American State Dept has just said that he should serve his sentence and this would seem to be in line with the views of the relatives of American victims.

Does al-Megrahi deserve any more compassion than what he showed for the ones he is convicted of killing?

Does he deserve any more compassion than other murderers such as Myra Hindley who were never released?

A quite dreadful miscarraige of British justice; it was that bad I thought he was Irish

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tomtscotland

A quite dreadful miscarraige of British justice; it was that bad I thought he was Irish

Crivvens - so many agendas on this forum :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A moral dilemma.

He's apparently not got long to live.

He was convicted over the Lockerbie bombing - it has already been conceded that he has grounds for appeal and this is ongoing but it is thought he will not live long enough to see it through.

Whilst no decision has yet been released it would seem quite likely that he may be released on compassionate grounds. The final decision lies with Scotland's Justice Secretary - Kenny MacAskill.

The American State Dept has just said that he should serve his sentence and this would seem to be in line with the views of the relatives of American victims.

Does al-Megrahi deserve any more compassion than what he showed for the ones he is convicted of killing?

Does he deserve any more compassion than other murderers such as Myra Hindley who were never released?

A moral dilemma indeed, TomT.

Feelings run high on the issue; already today I've heard people say that if his family want to be near him, then they should come to Scotland. That of course on Real Radio in a cab this morning :blink:

My own view's a tad less harsh. What purpose is served by keeping a dying man in prison?

He's hardly going to be a danger to the public.

Especially if there's reasonable grounds to appeal against his conviction. If there's even the smallest chance that his conviction was unsafe then I personally think he should be released if the medics confirm he's not long for the world. Did Myra Hindley have reasonable grounds to appeal, anyone know?

Though if anyone I knew had been a victim of Lockerbie I might have an understandably more subjective view...although I'd be interested to know if Jim Swire has given a view on this, as the foremost campaigner for the truth in this case.

If the US system of long sentences/ultimate revenge/death row etc worked as a deterrent by giving out a message, then fair play. I'm just not sure it does :(

What do you guys think? Are our national characteristics for compassion and fair play being played on in this case?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tomtscotland

Agendas??? Just stating facts.

The point is you mention Irish - like they were the only one's who've suffered miscarriages of justice.

There are scores of examples where British citizens and no doubt other nationalities have suffered miscarriages of justice. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tomtscotland

.....

Did Myra Hindley have reasonable grounds to appeal, anyone know?

....

I shot from the lip with this one. Not exactly the same scenario because she died from a heart attack - so didn't have the prognosis of only months to live. However, there were numerous attempts to get parole - but it was made fairly clear she was never going to be released.

I agree with your views on Megrahi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is you mention Irish - like they were the only one's who've suffered miscarriages of justice.

There are scores of examples where British citizens and no doubt other nationalities have suffered miscarriages of justice. :blink:

Not quite to the same extent, Tom; Ibelieve the West Midland's Serious Crime Squad had a penchant for such miscarraiges. However, this is sidetracking from the thread which was Megrahi.

It appears he has enough additional evidence for an appeal but just won't live long enough to see it through. I understand the UK victims family Group have been campaigning on his behalf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Though if anyone I knew had been a victim of Lockerbie I might have an understandably more subjective view...although I'd be interested to know if Jim Swire has given a view on this, as the foremost campaigner for the truth in this case.

Latest from BBC news;

However, Jim Swire, who is also the father of a victim, said he had never been convinced that Megrahi had carried out the bombing.

"The sooner he is back with his family, the better," he said.

"On reasonable human grounds it is the right thing to do.

"If it's true that he is to be returned on compassionate grounds, then that would be more to Scotland's credit than returning him under the prison transfer agreement."

Sure, many will disagree with this view.

If you were Kenny McAskill, what would you do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

stay or go/Tom S:

I have read and still have a copy of the Jim Swire report; am a believer and think that the man should be released.

tam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Based upon the high levels of doubt surrounding the conviction, he should be released.

If his guilt was in no doubt whatsoever, then my opinon would be different. No form of illness, regardless of the nature, should ever be seen as a reason for releasing a soundly convicted criminal.

Which makes me think there may be a whole new thread in the Ronnie Biggs issue, rather than take this thread off in another direction.

As for Megrahi, if he is falsley imprisoned, then that is sad - on two fronts. Not only has that man served all these years unjustly, but the real perpetrators are still free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jim Swire is an admirable man, a giant amongst ra pygmies involved in this debacle

Despite ra tragedy of losin his daughter he still seeks justice, not revenge, he wants the real criminals brought tae justice not jist ra polikilly expedient

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My own view's a tad less harsh. What purpose is served by keeping a dying man in prison?

He's hardly going to be a danger to the public.

Not so much a matter of danger to the public, but any release on these grounds can be used as propaganda against us by terrorist forces. "Home to die, he was innocent all along says grief stricken Mother " etc etc etc ... subversion is the secondary gain in this particual play .

The whole point of the appeals - which cost a fortune is to drain resources and create a doubt which in turn goes to the advantage of the manipulative terrorist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest westtender

Jim Swire was on the Today prog yesterday morning and he couldn't have been more unequivocal - he believes him to be innocent and he wants him freed.

Made some interesting points about the poor bewildered American families.... sold a pup by successive American political vested interests. This is easily done, when people are desperately seeking their 'closure'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so much a matter of danger to the public, but any release on these grounds can be used as propaganda against us by terrorist forces. "Home to die, he was innocent all along says grief stricken Mother " etc etc etc ... subversion is the secondary gain in this particual play .

The whole point of the appeals - which cost a fortune is to drain resources and create a doubt which in turn goes to the advantage of the manipulative terrorist.

Ah tend, before judjin and probably efterwards tae, that wan man's terrorist is anithurs freedom fighter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not so much a matter of danger to the public, but any release on these grounds can be used as propaganda against us by terrorist forces. "Home to die, he was innocent all along says grief stricken Mother " etc etc etc ... subversion is the secondary gain in this particual play .

The whole point of the appeals - which cost a fortune is to drain resources and create a doubt which in turn goes to the advantage of the manipulative terrorist.

I know what you're saying, LG, but I think the use of propaganda is actually less of an issue than the really overarching fact that this man may well have been wrongly convicted by the Scottish justice system. (And I've no doubt Britain is not above making political capital out of a British person possibly having been wrongly convicted in another country...)

That the appeal's been dropped seems pretty odd, and maybe darned convenient for some.

Kenny McAskill's said the appeal being dropped and the ongoing process to decide whether to release him are two separate issues. Are we finding that credible?

As it is, the man's likely to be released next week with a significant measure of doubt re his guilt. Hardly a fair outcome for him, his family, the families of the deceased and the rest of us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the convoluted world of terrorism, counterterrorism and all such wonders it is not beyond boundaries of posibilities that he was offerred as a scapegoat (willingly) just so the appeals proccess could take forever etc etc .... after that my head starts to hurt and I want my milk and nap. Night night

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tomtscotland

......

That the appeal's been dropped seems pretty odd, and maybe darned convenient for some.

Kenny McAskill's said the appeal being dropped and the ongoing process to decide whether to release him are two separate issues. Are we finding that credible?

......

...reekin of stinky fish - especially if he eventually gets released on humanitarion grounds.

It seems a device to ensure that this goes into the long grass for a very long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From a very cynical point of view gaols are full of people wrongly convicted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Latest; apparently Hillary Clinton has made a personal appeal to Kenny McAskill to keep Megrahi in jail here.

If she and her advisers know something we don't, I think we should be told.

The incident took place on Scottish soil. The Scottish emergency services dealt with the aftermath, the Scottish judicial system was responsible for the prosecution, the Scottish people pay for his incarceration and medical treatment, so the Scottish government should be the ones to judge how to deal with this case. Not the US.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8201188.stm

Megrahi (if guilty) did not carry out this crime alone. Who and where are the others? I have a horrible feeling the truth is not going to be palatable in the slightest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

..............

Megrahi (if guilty) did not carry out this crime alone. Who and where are the others? I have a horrible feeling the truth is not going to be palatable in the slightest.

The original suspects were the Iranians, by proxy, in consort with Syrian backing.

This was as revenge for the USS Vincennes (sic) shootin doon an Iranian airliner in 1988

The leader of wan of the Palestinian groups(PFLP-general command I thunk) Abu sumthin ur uthur had freely admitted on numerous occasion stae daein it.

But political expediency at the time (tacit approval/support from both Iran and Syria) tae launch the furst Gulf War meant that a new culprit wiz needed, who else but that all round bogey man Gaddafhi and Libya.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest tomtscotland

The original suspects were the Iranians, by proxy, in consort with Syrian backing.

This was as revenge for the USS Vincennes (sic) shootin doon an Iranian airliner in 1988

The leader of wan of the Palestinian groups(PFLP-general command I thunk) Abu sumthin ur uthur had freely admitted on numerous occasion stae daein it.

But political expediency at the time (tacit approval/support from both Iran and Syria) tae launch the furst Gulf War meant that a new culprit wiz needed, who else but that all round bogey man Gaddafhi and Libya.

Tam Dalyell was on the radio this morning explaining some of that.

He says that the Iranians threatened to blow up 10 passenger planes. The Americans did a "tit for tat" deal with the Iranians - allowing them to blow up only one plane. The Americans warned their diplomats /armed forces top brass as well as some South African diplomats not to travel - vacant spaces taken by American students. :angry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tam Dalyell was on the radio this morning explaining some of that.

He says that the Iranians threatened to blow up 10 passenger planes. The Americans did a "tit for tat" deal with the Iranians - allowing them to blow up only one plane. The Americans warned their diplomats /armed forces top brass as well as some South African diplomats not to travel - vacant spaces taken by American students. :)

I have heard that rumour too, TomT, a couple of years back. Not sure if it's just become urban myth or whether there's truth in it.

Either way, there's a load of murky facts yet to emerge from this sorry affair, I fear. Is the 'deal' to release Megrahi just a convenient smokescreen so that we all stop asking questions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...