Jump to content
Pat's Guide to Glasgow West End
Sign in to follow this  
Pat

EVEL

Recommended Posts

We all think people who agree with us are right... :P

...Wonders how EVEL can sound any more racist that a scottish nationalist party? <_<  Did Kaufman or Eagle and others that oppose EVEL  put forward any alternative measures for addressing the West Lothian question or are people happy just to continue with this anomaly?  

I have to say this baffles me.  It gives the SNP EXACTLY what they want and they are still complaining but I suppose they would say it is about process and democracy and of course the supporters of EVEL would say exactly the same.  

...Still can't my head around the Scottish PM issue and how that would be affected be EVEL but hey.... I don't profess to understand all things.  Is there a link or an article that sets this out?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like you agree with Jacob Rhees-Mogg that' It's England's turn.'

Democracy is out the window at Westminster. I agree with Alex Salmond that the basic principle of all MPs being equal has been breached.'

It seems pretty clear that only an English M.P. could now participate in all decisions made at Westminster as that is not an opinion but a fact. 

However, given that there has been so little coverage of EVEL by national T.V. and the Press, it's not really surprising that you've not heard this and all other aspects of the debate.  It has been covered by Scottish TV including disussion with reference to the role of Scottish Prime Ministers on Scotland Today.


https://youtu.be/DfxZZTUsvuI

Wings Over Scotland – (not the most credible of sources, one could argue, given its strong Scottish Nationalist stance) does however do a good job of spelling this issue out:
"what it unquestionably means is that no MP from a Scottish, Welsh or Northern Irish seat can realistically ever again be the Prime Minister of the UK.

Any such PM who brought forward a bill, voted on it, and then had to stand helplessly and impotently by as English MPs vetoed it would be a laughing stock and a lame duck. They would look absurd. The “optics” of the situation, as charmless pundits are fond of saying these days, would simply be untenable.

Much the same would apply to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretaries of State for Health and Education and the Home Secretary, who oversees non-Scottish justice. In other words, most of the great UK offices of state would be de facto out of bounds to British citizens representing three of the four “nations” of the Union."

With wings clipped to such an extent there could be no Scottish Prime Minister.

It's a puir guddle. They say the first veto will be next week.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The cleanest, simplest and correct solution would have been to accord England its own parliament.  Westminster is a UK parliament, its where UK legislation is made, no MP should be barred from hearing that, discussing it and voting on it.

Its that bad, even Tory MPs are becoming uncomfortable with it

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alex Salmond recognised that it was inappropriate for Scottish ministers to vote on English matters and demonstrated this by ensuring that SNP ministers abstained from these matters.  EVEL has only formalised that arrangement, as far as I can see.  I think there would have been a furore if England had set up a new Parliament to deal with a few bills a year, rather than an amendment to standing orders.   Scotland has complete control over devolved issues and it seems, wants to have a say in laws that will not apply in Scotland?  Really, is that democracy?  Everyone is jumping up and down shouting now but they have been  strangely quiet since 1997 over the anomaly of the West Lothian question and England's democracy, until some attempt has been made to redress it.  Hopefully EVEL will be the stop gap that will propel the UK to a Federal system, where the rights over each part of the UK can be constitutionally recognised in a fair and consistent way.  

Tell me again, why should Scotland have a say in England only matters when England (quite rightly)  has no say in issues devolved to the Scottish parliament?

Not buying this.... 

 

 

 

Edited by harper

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 At the end of the day it is now a U.K. Parliament where English Politicians are the only members who can vote on all issues.  I have no idea how anyone can think this is a good, or fair, set up.  There should be an English Parliament for them to vote on English matters.  If they can't afford it maybe they could remove Trident from Scottish shores and save a buck.

And, of course, there is the matter of the Prime Minister. 

I've already explained how, what might be considered English only matters, has implications for other regions. Doesn't seem any point in going over it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, harper. I don't see any reference to the issue of PM – must be missing that, although, I have read this before.  I reckon he's very hopeful that this is at all likely to happen: "If he can strong-arm, cajole and persuade enough Tories to rebel - he can still prevail.'

I know we've seen some signs of Tory rebellion relating to the tax credits cuts but how many of them voted against austerity measures?

There is a veto.

Let's see how this pans out.  I have been distracted by the fantastic work by the Baronesses in putting Osborne back to the drawing board regarding his aims of plunging yet more children into poverty with his tax credit cuts.

I don't see how the Scottish Government could do anymore to soften the worse effects of vicious policy coming via Westminster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The PM question was raised in one of the replies.

The House of Lords gets a bit of a kicking but constitutionally, it is interesting to see the role they are playing in ensuring checks, balances and rebuttals on Tory policy.  Constitutionally, it may be all over the place but at least there is opposition and people are passionately engaging to fight what they think is right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't read the replies, harper. I thought you meant it was in the article.  If it hadn't been an issue I'm pretty sure the Peat Warrior would have included it in his piece arguing no need for any fuss.  Despite the lack of principle.

Yes, big tremble of the lips from both Cameron and Osborne.  I don't see the response of the Lords as a constitutional crisis.  The crisis is the cutting of the tax credits. The political issue is in relation to convention as there is no constitution and it's brilliant to see the Baronesses so on the case.  

I'm also delighted to see people passionately engaged in fighting for what they think is right. That includes the cutting of the tax credits and EVEL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've got a point, Canny Lass.

First exclusion of the Scots today. Housing and Planning Bill. Kind of looks more like a London only issue if you go by the in put for most of the debate.  When they're talking about the lack of housing being a 'serious national problem' – does that apply only to England?

I know Holyrood has a different view on the right to buy but Housing isn't a devolved issue. 

The House looks helluva empty without the SNP MPs – who tend to turn up.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not think it is a major issue as the SNP did not usually vote on matters that only affected England. But to keep things equal each country should have their own parliament and come together for national issues. I think that transport is a national issue.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...