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Pat's Guide to Glasgow West End

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I see Lothian Health Board has withdrawn all funding of homeopathy services. Glasgow has either done similar or is thinking of doing similar.

Now, I'm no expert but don't a large amount of our drugs start out in nature, didn't aspirin come from tree bark, the benefits of lipids and omega 3 oils have now been fully recognised and indeed are transcending into pharamceutucils.

Is this just another case of aggresive 'science' hating what it doesn't understand and can measure?

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There's been a campaign on the go to keep the Homeopathy Hospital in Glasgow. Don't know what the latest is. I remember it used to just be a tiny wee place down somewhere around Lynedoch Street. i went then, way back in the 60s and have attended the beautiful hospital at Gartnavel.

One big difference with the homeopathy approach was that they considered the whole person. Nowadays in NHS you are pigeonholed and seldom is there an overall picture.

When I was very ill with a undiagnosed condition seven years ago, and after jumping through numerous NHS hoops and seeing various consultants, I paid to see a homeopath privately (there is invariably a long waiting list for appointments at the Homeopathic Hospital). The doctor I saw was able to confirm that I had Lyme Disease. His advice was to as my GP to refer me to the Brownlee Centre, which she did, but they refused to see me - twice - but were happy to issue a prescription for psychosis (one of the variety of diagnosis suggested, including lupus) by letter, without ever having seen me or even spoken to me. The Homeopath was horrified at this treatment and pointed me to where I could find the proper treatment.

Ultimately, I had to get a Lyme Specialist, in Bolton, as none could be identified in Scotland. I was also treated at the Homeopathic Hospital. I was treated by alternative medicine, and started to get my health back. I have never been able to be treated for Lyme through the NHS.

So far as I am concerned there is a massive gap in the knowledge and training of our doctors. A high percentage of them are aware of this. Fortunately, my doctor is supportive and has been willing to point me to where I can get treatment.

If the homeopathic hospitals go there is going to be an upsurge in people buying off the Internet, where they may not be getting the genuine substance.

Has the Queen no clout?

http://homeopathyheals.me.uk/site/component/content/article/111-frontpage/2918-homeopathic-hospital-campaign-gains-momentum

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Now, I'm no expert but don't a large amount of our drugs start out in nature, didn't aspirin come from tree bark, the benefits of lipids and omega 3 oils have now been fully recognised and indeed are transcending into pharamceutucils.

Let's be clear. Homeopathy dilutes substances to the point where no atom of the original is likely to remain. Practitioners claim that subsequent dilutions, even to astronomical degrees, increase a drug's therapeutic power. Whatever anecdotal effect homeopathic 'remedies' may have can only be explained by the placebo effect or something happening in the counter-intuitive chaos below the quantum level.

What is unarguable is that if you dilute a gram of cinchona ten million times you have a pretty fair unit cost for your product.

In other words, homeopathy works with one substance only: BS. Dilute BS ten million times and you still have BS.

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LOL thank you Sgriob.

Does the homeopathic method not begin with reasonable levels of substance and then gradually dilute to virtual zero?

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I have no idea of the efficacy of homeopathy,and respect it may have helped some,but when I have my heart attack,please don't rush me to the nearest homeopathic hospital,instead,get me every drug and machine known to mankind tout suite in the nearest cardiac unit,oh,and some specialists who know what they're doing,and not at the weekend!I hope my heart is taking note of my wishes.

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LOL thank you Sgriob.

Does the homeopathic method not begin with reasonable levels of substance and then gradually dilute to virtual zero?

Don't ask me, Sam. The Wikipedia entry is exhaustive and exhausting. I can't be bothered to read it all, because I'll never use homeopathy and I have nothing to say to those who do. This is another of those persistent delusions that afflict mankind. The real mystery is why so many people, even intelligent people, prefer delusion over reason.

True story: A friend's mother treated her ovarian cancer with Buddhist chanting and homeopathy. She died in her fifties. Wicked of me to say so, but I don't think she insisted on homeopathic doses of morphine at the end.

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I have no idea of the efficacy of homeopathy,and respect it may have helped some,but when I have my heart attack,please don't rush me to the nearest homeopathic hospital,instead,get me every drug and machine known to mankind tout suite in the nearest cardiac unit,oh,and some specialists who know what they're doing,and not at the weekend!I hope my heart is taking note of my wishes.

Me too, willie,.

However, I think that it is unwise to close your mind to alternative medicine and when I'm sick I'm happy to consider all that is on offer. Perhaps because I've been let down so often by mainstream diagnoses and treatments and, on the other hand, have benefited a great deal from alternative medicine. I'm not sure if it's still the case but I know five years ago, when I was sick that anyone in Glasgow being treated by Oncology Departments could be fast tracked to the Homeopathy Hospital. My doc told me about this. She's a bright, modern, high flyer with queues of patients at her door.

When I'm sick I'm willing to consider various options. Probably because I depend on alternative medicine on a daily basis. I've certainly never had a homeopath or medic outside the NHS advocate ditching mainstream medicine but I have had intelligent, educated GPs point me towards treatment, which they are unable to provide. I'm very thankful for that.

I go for the best of both worlds and I'm willing to listen. I have my solid anticonvulsants, these I cannot do without but neither can I do without my regular alternatives. I've seen lauded consultants who don't have a clue, had an operation cancelled when I was lucky enough to meet with a more enlightened surgeon, baffled inept practitioners at the Nuffield and had my life turned around by a homeopath and alternative practitioners. I'm never going to bad mouth them.

I'd be beware of a simplistic approach when categorising. If I bruise I tend to reach for the arnica. How does it work? - how the hell should I know but it does. So does solomon's seal actually - and when we were wee if any of us got a cut or bruise we knew to go get some from my uncle's garden. Of course, it it was a really bad cut we were rushed to the doc for stitches and a tetantus jag but the plant would still be applied when we got home.

I've met numerous people who've benefited from homeopathy - at the Homeopathic Hospital. Are they delusional? - who knows? Are they better? - some for sure and that's why they go back.

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Don't ask me, Sam. The Wikipedia entry is exhaustive and exhausting. I can't be bothered to read it all, because I'll never use homeopathy and I have nothing to say to those who do. This is another of those persistent delusions that afflict mankind. The real mystery is why so many people, even intelligent people, prefer delusion over reason.

True story: A friend's mother treated her ovarian cancer with Buddhist chanting and homeopathy. She died in her fifties. Wicked of me to say so, but I don't think she insisted on homeopathic doses of morphine at the end.

I don't think any self respecting homeopath would support that kind of treatment programme. If they do, they should be shot. Practitioners tend to talk about complimentary therapies rather than alternative therapies. I'll take the best that both has to offer. Mind you, if I am ever in an accident I want to hear ambulance sirens, not wind-chimes.

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if I am ever in an accident I want to hear ambulance sirens, not wind-chimes.

And not harps and heavenly choirs either, just yet.

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Hi there!

Someone has asked about the Campaign for the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital and here is the Petition to sign. Please get your friends to sign as well. There were once fourteen homeopathic hospitals in Britain and this is the last one.

NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde: Save the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital

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Hi Louise and welcome to the forum. Feel free to tell us your views on the topic. :)

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Don't take any notice of the skeptics. They receive Google Alerts on Homeopathy, which means any article anywhere on the internet about homeopathy is on these email Alerts. The skeptics' job is to go on to any comments section or Forum and attack homeopathy - I kid you not! It is a full time and we believe paid, job for them.

Please note that the Skeptics have a Petition to withdraw funding from the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital, which despite their worldwide movement, has only attracted 2,085 signatures !!!

Meantime, our Petition to Save the Glasgow Homeopathic Hospital has 11,764 signatures !!

So that tells you that homeopathy is far more popular than the mainstream media would have you believe but the general public don't get their voices heard, except via this Petition! Thank God for Change.org where Petitions can't be manipulated!

All or any information about homeopathy is on my website www.homeopathyheals.me.uk

You can get my little introductory book about it there on the lefthand column.

IT WORKS. I have used it exclusively since 1991 and haven't needed to visit a doctor or take a single pharmaceutical pill since 1991! There are 4,000 homeopathic medicines for everything and anything! But Big Pharma, who have a huge influence and control of the mainstream media, do NOT want the public to find out how well it works, under any circumstances. Hence all the homeopathy-bashing.

Louise Mclean

Homeopathy Heals Me

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Hi Louise,

so you've used homeopathic remedies since 1991 without recourse to all the life saving drugs those pesky pharmaceutical companies make?I am assuming you have avoided cancer, strokes and heart attacks so far,and just for the record,in the unfortunate event of any of these conditions striking you,where do you want rushed to?The homeopathic hospital?The Western Inf?Oh and just for the record,I am not even sceptical about homeopathy,I simply don't believe a word of it

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I've known a lot of people benefit from homeopathy, willie, and believe that it has helped me. I've also got a great deal of respect for many homeopaths and I am indebted to them. I agree completely with what you are saying about treatment for the illnesses you point to, such as, strokes, and as harper has already pointed out, no self respecting homeopath would anticipate treating these conditions. I also think it's unlikely that you would call the homeopath rather than an ambulance if you, or someone else had a heart attack, but I know of doctors in Glasgow, who refer their cancer patients to the Homeopathic Hospital for complementary treatment. In fact there is an arrangement that they can be fast tracked. Generally you can wait up to six months for treatment at the homeopathic hospital. It's popularity has grown through word of mouth.

Unfortunately, there are many conditions that won't be treated within the NHS because there is not the knowledge. That's where approaches such as homeopathy, hypnotherapy, reflexology, acupuncture etc all come in handy. The Chinese Medics also attrract a lot of scorn, yet, there are thriving practices everywhere, including in the West End.

As I've said before, it was a hynotherapist who turned my life around. He didn't treat me but made the correct diagnosis. NHS refused to see me, despite his and my GPs recommendations. I was treated eventually through alternative medicine. Nine years down the line there is still no treatment available for chronic lyme sufferers within the NHS in the UK. Fortunately, I have a sympathetic and knowledgeable GP, who has pointed me to where I can be treated - outwith NHS.

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And my view of the pharmaceutical companies disnae go tae extremes, am thinking that they have done a lot of guid but deserve far mair blame than received in regards their blunders.

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I don't have a closed mind about the possible efficacy of all out-of-the-mainstream therapies. I'm convinced that hypnotherapy is one of our oldest resources for treating mental and physical ailments. Every shaman in every 'primitive' culture is a skilled hypnotist ( and usually a good mind reader, herbalist and conjurer too.)

The body has a thousand ways to repair itself and battle infections. Sometimes all that's needed is a bit of a shoogle - mental or physical - to set the processes in motion. There is scientific evidence to suggest that placebos, hypnotism, cupping and acupuncture, among others, might be the shoogles in question.

Some individuals are more susceptible than others. The reported effectiveness of acupuncture is much higher in countries (Asia) where it has been used for donkey's years. Some investigators believe that susceptibility to its effects may even be hereditary. (Those for whom it didn't work didn't live to breed another day.)

I'm all for the SCIENTIFIC investigation of 'alternative' therapies. When their efficacy is proved we can start looking at HOW they work, to the great benefit of us all. "Alternative" therapies, if they are any good, don't stay alternative for long.

No reputable scientist has been able to demonstrate that homeopathy works. To those who say it worked for them, I say more power to your elbow. But it's still 18th Century pseudoscience for all that.

(Fun factoid: a recent study showed that placebos can work even when you know they are placebos.)

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I like the idea of the shoogle approach very much, Sgriob. I don't think placebos work if you are seriously unwell and it may well be the case that no reputable scientist has been able to demonstrate that homeopathy works - I couldn't say, but there are many reputable GPs pointing patients to alternative treatments that they cannot provide, that would include homeopathy.

I don't agree that alternative therapies that work don't stay alternative for long. In fact, there are reputable doctors and surgeons, who also provide alternative treatments but have to be extremely cautious about how they go about this. The difficulty for patients to be treated for Lyme Disease highlights how controversial this area is both politically and medically.

The Lyme Wars - some of the same old same old that has been written about for years. Infection is growing as is the battle about how to treat it.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2013/07/01/130701fa_fact_specter

Just one of thousands of patients world wide old a similar view: "She knows that her approach to Lyme disease is controversial and acknowledges that the improvements might be due to her dietary regimen or to Rife treatments or to a placebo effect. She doesn’t mind; after enduring such pain, she has found that fine points don’t matter."

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Read the New Yorker piece avidly, having earned an award from Arthropod Weekly for 'Best Alfresco Dining in California." Don't quite know how that happened because I didn't think any of the countless ticks who have dined chez moi ever lived to tell the tale. Could it be that a few satisfied customers escaped without my noticing?

But... Lyme is still something of a medical mystery. Science has yet to get to the bottom of it, but Science is still our best hope.

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In this instance I absolutely don't agree that science is the best bet, Sgriob, because in many cases science is not serving sufferers well. It has been stressed over and over that lyme is difficult to diagnose and scientific methods often result in false results. Experts recommend that the symptoms of the patients should be what informs doctors. It's complicated but not actually a medical mystery at all. As it says in the article "The disease is caused by the bacterium Borrelia burgdorferi". Usually transmitted through a tick bite.

A satisfied customer may well have escaped without you noticing but not all ticks carry the bacteria and not everyone with lyme recollects having been bitten, and indeed there are probably other vectors.

However, dependence on science often leads to misdiagnosis and frighteningly the disease is ever on the increase. ' Lyme disease is the most commonly reported tick-borne illness in the United States, and the incidence is growing rapidly. In 2009, the C.D.C. reported thirty-eight thousand cases, three times more than in 1991. Most researchers agree that the true number of infections is five to ten times higher.'

Of course there are many scientific methods of identifying Lyme including:

  • Borrelia antibody evaluation by ELISA technique, which measures antibodies to the organism.
  • Polymerase Chain Reaction test for Borrelia burgdorferi, which measures the presence of the DNA – the chromosomes of the organism from the patient.
  • Lymphocyte Transformation Test for Borrelia burgdorferi (LTT MELISA), which, if the results are positive, demonstrates current active infection with the organism.
  • Borrelia burgdorferi IgG and IgM antibody evaluation by the Immunoblot/Western Blot technique, which detects portions of the Lyme disease organism

However, I doubt anyone with suspected lyme has been put through all of these tests by NHS. Much more likely that the first test comes back negative, they are told they don't have lyme, and may be treated for fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue and very, very often for psychiatric problems.

I would strongly recommend to anyone who suspects that they have lyme to get themselves along to a homeopath - as they will listen - and consider the whole person, get the complete picture and thus have a much better chance of coming up with the right diagnosis. After a very stressful and circuitous route, it was no problem for the homeopath to reach a diagnosis.

During my diagnostic mission I also saw Jan de Vries, the celebrated alternative practitioner since 1956. After many hospital and GP appointments, psychiatric assessments, a very expensive consultation at The Nuffield, where the consultant suggested that I had syphilis!!! (Of course, he also wrote to my doctor that I couldn't have Lyme as I didn't live in the country. £200 down for that particular insight.) Jan de Vries, after a short consultation, told me emphatically. 'You have Lyme Disease'.

Neither he nor the homeopath treated me but referred me back to my GP. Seven years down the line I still cannot be treated by the NHS. However, many doctors are aware of what can help and willing to inform their patients about alternative practitioners.

If anyone thinks they have had a tick bite. Especially if they see the bull's eye rash then get along right away to their doc. A short antibiotic treatment should sort them out but if you have a whole range of symptoms and feel incredibly unwell, and especially if you have been out hillwalking or such like, then speak to your doc about lyme. Of course, they might just dismiss you as psychotic - that happens regularly.

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In this instance I absolutely don't agree that science is the best bet, Sgriob, because in many cases science is not serving sufferers well.

I absolutely know that science is the best bet, for all the failings and inadequacies of researchers and health systems. All else is medievalism. The mystery of Lyme will be solved by rational scientists and researchers, not by latter day witch doctors and hucksters. So we agree to disagree.

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Plus many medical "discoveries" were the result of pure good luck.....something left too long in a petrie dish, something forgotten in a blender, or so I am led to believe.

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Plus many medical "discoveries" were the result of pure good luck.....something left too long in a petrie dish, something forgotten in a blender, or so I am led to believe.

There's all sorts of ways at coming at it. I am awed by much that science has come up with, Sgriob. But agree with, tam. Many a great 'scientific' discovery has been stumbled upon. One example of that being LDN, which, thankfully works out great for many, many people. Still can't be prescribed in UK but can be prescribed, including for lyme, in the states.

There is no mystery around lyme. What there is a reluctance to treat it and a lack of knowledge among doctors when trying to diagnose it - and as previously pointed out. Sometimes an adverse overreliance on inadequate scientific methods.

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