21 replies to this topic

[samscafeamericain]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18436795

It's not that you are poor; it's that you have been wrongly classified.

See, that's how you erradicate child poverty.

[Pat]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18436795

It's not that you are poor; it's that you have been wrongly classified.

See, that's how you erradicate child poverty.

I'm with this guy:
"... Oxfam's director of UK poverty Chris Jones said 60% of working-age adults in poverty were not from jobless households.

"The government is justifying huge cuts to welfare support for people on low incomes by saying this will incentivise work, but there simply aren't enough decent jobs available,"

There's also not enough affordable childcare. I know of people in part-time jobs who have been offered promotion but can't take it because they can't work the longer hours required due to lack of childcare provision.

[lynnski]

This also impacts disproportionally on women, they are mostly the ones with the children to look after, who are forced to work part time as they cannot afford the child care costs of full time work. This leads to the poverty levels which we see all around us, single mums staying on benefits, because they are 'better off'. Wrote an essay on this recently, the figures are quite sickening, and it's only getting worse under the coalition government even though they are trying to skew the figures to show otherwise. Countries such as Sweden have government run childcare schemes, which encourage people to work.

It's not just unemployment that causes poverty, it's also underemployment. If you come off benefits to work a minimum wage job you are generally no better off financially, and in many cases worse off, as you have to factor in travel and lunch costs for the new job, as well as buying smart/work clothes and shoes, as well as the usual outgoings like food, utilities, etc. in order to get working tax credits you have to work for a minimum of 16hrs a week, and many jobs now appear to only be hiring for 8, 12 or 14hrs a week.

[lynnski]

I just discovered a job in WH Smith, 4hrs a week. Who in all reality would want to work for less than £25 a week? And another job, employer not specified, state "You MUST be ELIGIBLE AND WILLING to undertake initial 8 weeks of WORK EXPERIENCE where training will be delivered if successfully completes all training Job Offer may be made". Not to mention the poor grammar, but seriously, 2 month working for what appears to be free, with no guarantee of a job at the end of it? Seriously fed up now, bring on the revolution!!

[Dexter St. Clair]

That's illegal. Workers must get paid at least the national minimum wage. If this employer ia a charity they should be ashamed of themselves.

[lynnski]

That's illegal. Workers must get paid at least the national minimum wage. If this employer ia a charity they should be ashamed of themselves.

I genuinely don't know who the employer is Dex, but charity or not, the minimum wage should be paid! The ad is very ambiguous, under 'pay rate' it says 'meets national minimum wage', but doesn't say if the applicant will be paid the minimum wage or not during the 8 week period.

[Pat]

I genuinely don't know who the employer is Dex, but charity or not, the minimum wage should be paid! The ad is very ambiguous, under 'pay rate' it says 'meets national minimum wage', but doesn't say if the applicant will be paid the minimum wage or not during the 8 week period.

You hear so much of people 'working' for charities as interns these days that nothing would surprise me. Guess it's all part of the Big Society.

[tig]

the get out clause there will be that theyre not actually "working" but "training" or on an "internship"

no min wage rules

[Dexter St. Clair]

I agree Pat but there is a get out clause for charities within the minimum wage legislation. Internships are covered by minimum wage legislation X Factor

Where was the as Lynski?

[lynnski]

I agree Pat but there is a get out clause for charities within the minimum wage legislation. Internships are covered by minimum wage legislation X Factor

Where was the as Lynski?

It was on the job centre website Dex. I can't post an exact link to the ad, as that expires really quickly, but I'll go looking again and see if I can get the job ref.

[lynnski]

I've eventually found it! Full text of ad:

Job No: REN/18402
Wage: NATIONAL MINIMUM WAGE
Hours: 25 - 35 PER WEEK SHIFTS TO BE ARRANGED
Location: INCHINNAN PA4

Local employer require a Trainee to learn all aspects of Retail you must have good numeracy, organisational and verbal communication skills. Also working in the Kitchen making up Teas/Coffees hot and cold rolls, you must be flexible regarding work carried out as could be working within the store assisting customers with their purchases, some cash handling, stock replenishment and general housekeeping. You MUST be ELIGIBLE AND WILLING to undertake initial 8 weeks of WORK EXPERIENCE where training will be delivered if successfully completes all training Job Offer may be made

For further details about job reference REN/18402, please telephone Jobseeker Direct on 0845 6060 234.

So, maybe it's the way I'm reading it, but it looks to me like you don't get paid. If anyone wants to phone the 0845 number for more info, feel free!!

[lynnski]

There's also 8 'commission only' posts, which I thought were illegal now?

[tig]

i just asked them as i was calling them about another one anyway

woman said shes not sure but work experience is generally working but still getting your benefits.....ask at renfrew job centre she said.

so its no wages for 8 weeks and they might take you on after that at min wage.

the commission ones usually have a disclaimer something along the lines of "employer has assured us that you at least make min wage"

i very much doubt anyone at the dwp monitors or cares about whether you do or dont....get the unemployment numbers down will be their only goal

oh n ps.....its NOT a free number as they tell me every other week as i dont have BT and why they feel the need to play a 5 min recording before they actually put me though to a real person is beyond me....maybe a way to earn some pennies.
oh and while im in dwp rant mode.....why oh why oh why do they put the 0845 number on the ads then when you phone they tell an email address to email for the companies app form or to send my cv?......surely they could just write that on the advert.
total time wasting exercise

[lynnski]

Interesting tig... And quite why they tell you its a free number when it's blatantly NOT is just odd!! I hate companies that do that whole giving you a 203 minute spiel, especially broadband companies, 'have you tried asking online?' No I haven't because the broadband connection is down, hence why I am phoning you, argh!! Stop costing me money and put me through to a human ffs!!

[Dexter St. Clair]

"You MUST be ELIGIBLE AND WILLING to undertake initial 8 weeks of WORK EXPERIENCE where training will be delivered if successfully completes all training Job Offer may be made"

Eight weeks training to make up rolls.


!"This is a very interesting concept, as it is based in ... a business complex. So by day it concentrates on serving the workers, and by night it offers this part of the world the most interesting quality food it has seen in a very long time. What it lacks slightly in atomosphere it more than makes up for with reasonably priced, well-sourced, quality eating. I would recommend it to anyone who likes to eat well. I particularly enjoyed the loin of venison on my visit there. The waiting staff are very young, but very professional."

I remember when Stakis got rid of older staff and replaced them with YOPs who at least got paid more than their benefits.

[samscafeamericain]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-18567855

petty, spiteful, typical Tory B*******

[Pat]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-18567855

petty, spiteful, typical Tory B*******

It's so simple - married, employed = good.
single parents, unemployed = bad.

And, of course, young people deserve nothing.

In the meanwhile they are creating all these jobs, apprenticeships and opportunities.

[harper]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...litics-18567855

petty, spiteful, typical Tory B*******

Hear! hear! I am all for saving 2billion on housing benefit for the under 25s, providing it is redirected into jobs and housing that people can afford to rent.

Cameron seems to have overlloked the sameful fact that so much has to be invested in broken futures....


Rowan Williams isnae overly impressed either.....


http://www.guardian....society-cameron

[lynnski]

What if the parents are abusive or neglectful? What if they are dead? One of my friends was orphaned at 21. One of my colleagues at Clintons was 22, found out she was pregnant 2 months before we shut, she was a supervisor and had worked hard non-stop since she left school. She's HAD to move back in with her mum, as she's 5 months pregnant and unemployed, she can't really go get another job. Just because someone's under 25 doesn't mean they are feckless or lazy. Forcing people to live with their parents until they are 25 takes away the independence and freedom to make mistakes/experiment/live life that turns us into the adults we become.

[Pat]

What if the parents are abusive or neglectful? What if they are dead?

A lot of questions, lynnski. There are a great many young people in care homes - what happens to them when they are over the age limit and have to go out on their own. Even if they've got a job they are unlikely to be able to pay rent without housing benefit assistance. Thank goodness, as harper points out, people like Rowan Williams are speaking out.

This government seem to specifically target the most vulnerable members of our society. They should be seeking ways to support our young people.

One of my friends was orphaned at 21. One of my colleagues at Clintons was 22, found out she was pregnant 2 months before we shut, she was a supervisor and had worked hard non-stop since she left school. She's HAD to move back in with her mum, as she's 5 months pregnant and unemployed, she can't really go get another job. Just because someone's under 25 doesn't mean they are feckless or lazy. Forcing people to live with their parents until they are 25 takes away the independence and freedom to make mistakes/experiment/live life that turns us into the adults we become.

That's a shame about your friend, lynnski. Sadly there will be many more like her.