63 replies to this topic

[tig]

How would you legally distinguish between a walk, a march and a parade?

it makes no difference whether they are walking , marching or parading....its the nature of intent that is being classified....if you intend to parade/walk/march/run/skip/jump hateful sectarian bigotry then you should be banned from doing so.

Care to answer this Tig?


“Glasgow City Council has made it perfectly clear that this new policy is aimed directly at the Orange Order. (1)This is religious discrimination. Furthermore, their attempts to prevent free assembly are completely illegal under European Human Rights legislation. (2)We have the right to celebrate our own Christian beliefs just as any other organisation has the right to celebrate theirs. Just because a handful of politicians decide that they don’t agree with our beliefs and values doesn’t give them the right to banish us from our own City Centre.
For decades, Orangemen have made positive contributions to our great City whilst faith has been a strong part of Scottish culture for centuries. Records show that Orange Parades in the City of Glasgow were first held in 1821. The lodges have paraded through the City each year since that first parade 189 years ago. Yet today, the City Council wants that long tradition and history to be shattered. Our 10,000 members who live within the City of Glasgow are now to be banned from parading in their own city centre. This is something we do not accept simply because not everyone shares our views and opinions.
Glasgow City Council seems to have forgotten that it is their duty to find ways to make free assembly possible, rather than find ways to prevent it. (3)The European Court of Human Rights has made clear that there is a positive duty on an authority (i) to take reasonable and appropriate measures to enable lawful assemblies and marches to proceed peacefully and (ii) to take adequate measures to prevent violent acts directed against the participants in an assembly or march, or at least limit their extent. (4)[This duty arises out of Article 11 which confers the right of peaceful assembly and association. See United Macedonian Organisation Ilinden and Ivanov v. Bulgaria (2007) 44 E.H.R.R. 4.]

November 2010

ok ill answer your 18 month old propaganda statement

1. theyre not a religion so thats wrong
2. it has nothing to do with Christianity so that wrong
3. if they make it unlawful due to its bigoted/hateful nature then they have no duty of care....by making such marches unlawful they would be complying with EU leg by preventing violence and breach of any peace.
4.the EU article concerns peaceful assembly......which the council could quite easily deem an orange walk is not due to its hateful nature

I take it you or none of the Orangemen whom you quoted this off have read up on what the EU directive on peaceful assembly actually says, simply because there would be no need to cite the above statement......alas we live in the UK and our laws are different (even tho we are supposed to follow EU law...we dont)(thank thatcher/blair for that)...so if you/them bothered to read it you would know that according to the directive you dont need permission at all...nor do you have to give notice of your intentions at any time.......

now try doing that and youl get to quote all the EU laws you like while your in the pokey

[samscafeamericain]

http://www.heraldsco...events.17763327

The Piper being paid?

[Pat]

http://www.heraldsco...events.17763327

The Piper being paid?

Humza Yousaf, SNP MSP for Glasgow, has called on the city council to spell out its engagement with the Orange Order.

Last night he said: "Money from the public purse has been given to various Jubilee parties, which are largely being organised by Orange lodges across the city, on the proviso they will be open and inclusive to other communities. I would be keen to hear what attempts have been made to reach out to Glasgow's diverse communities and other faith groups in particular."

Good question, Humza. If anyone wants to organise a Jubilee Party then that's fair enough but how many of us want to fund the 'fun'?

Big mistake by Glasgow City Council.

Why didn't they go ahead and organise a big fun day for kids with the money or toss some money towards the West End Festival or similar community events?

[Dexter St. Clair]

All the decisions to give grants to community organisations to hold Jubilee parties were made at Area Committee level. All the councillors within a ward vote on the grants. There's 21 wards and eight of them made awards. You will note that all comments come from SNP MSPs. The question to ask is how many SNP councillors said no to the award in their area.

I do realise the SNP is relying on the gullibility of the electorate to win the referendum but one should always keep in mind Louis Heren's adage "When a politician tells you something in confidence, always ask yourself Why is this lying ###### lying to me?" I look forward to

And according to this report the Govan jubilee party organised by a local community group went well.

http://www.heraldsco...e-park.17769612. I do believe the kids had a big fun day.

West enders who receive public money to fund the West End Festival and The Mela should be cautious about criticising other community celeebrations. It's hundreds of pounds compared to thousands. I look forward to Humza Yousaf's comments on these grants.

[Pat]

All the decisions to give grants to community organisations to hold Jubilee parties were made at Area Committee level. All the councillors within a ward vote on the grants. There's 21 wards and eight of them made awards. You will note that all comments come from SNP MSPs. The question to ask is how many SNP councillors said no to the award in their area.

I wonder how many at all said no.

I do realise the SNP is relying on the gullibility of the electorate to win the referendum but one should always keep in mind Louis Heren's adage "When a politician tells you something in confidence, always ask yourself Why is this lying ###### lying to me?" I look forward to

And according to this report the Govan jubilee party organised by a local community group went well.

http://www.heraldsco...e-park.17769612. I do believe the kids had a big fun day.

Great. I mentioned that one elsewhere and promoted it for the group. Super bunch of individuals involved.

... I see we're to have marches in Partick, Maryhill and Coocaddens.

Shame we couldn't have the WEF parade.

Only eight street parties in the city but I hear there are some alternative celebrations planned.
Magpie Street Party in Govan is one that I know of. Then Arches have organised a big mystery spot celebration with buses heading out of town.

The people in Govan went to some length to clarify what their party was about - more of an alternative celebration:
"The other street parties may be focusing on the Queen's Diamond Jubilee but we are of course taking our own unique approach. We're taking the diamond theme and we're calling it 'Govan Sparkles' - the event will focus on what's great about Govan and it will be a celebration of all the wonderful things which have happened here over the past 60 years. It will be a family event with face painting, live music and of course cake! We're using the street party as an opportunity to bring the community together, we want to see lots of chatting and laughter as people come together to celebrate all that's great about Govan." http://www.glasgowwe...xhibitions.html

West enders who receive public money to fund the West End Festival and The Mela should be cautious about criticising other community celeebrations. It's hundreds of pounds compared to thousands. I look forward to Humza Yousaf's comments on these grants.

Aye so they should - if they were criticising community celebrations per se.

[samscafeamericain]

All the decisions to give grants to community organisations to hold Jubilee parties were made at Area Committee level. All the councillors within a ward vote on the grants. There's 21 wards and eight of them made awards. You will note that all comments come from SNP MSPs. The question to ask is how many SNP councillors said no to the award in their area.

I do realise the SNP is relying on the gullibility of the electorate to win the referendum but one should always keep in mind Louis Heren's adage "When a politician tells you something in confidence, always ask yourself Why is this lying ###### lying to me?" I look forward to

And according to this report the Govan jubilee party organised by a local community group went well.

http://www.heraldsco...e-park.17769612. I do believe the kids had a big fun day.

West enders who receive public money to fund the West End Festival and The Mela should be cautious about criticising other community celeebrations. It's hundreds of pounds compared to thousands. I look forward to Humza Yousaf's comments on these grants.

Ahhh I see, support for the Orange Order and its marching band of bigots is the same as support for the Mela and the West End Festival.........there you have it folks, Glasgow Nu Labour logic writ large.

[Dexter St. Clair]

I was of course referring to Starter Packs Govan who organised a community party. As usual you fell for the bait without reading the Herald article. I was at The Govan Fair on Friday night. It receives minimal public support certainly in comparison with the recently established West End festival and The Mela which of course will be hooching with politicians of all shades of puce.


You presumed along with other correspondents that all the parties in Glasgow were organised by the Orange Order. So where were the SNP councillors when these grants were approved? Down at the lacal Knights club?

[samscafeamericain]

I was of course referring to Starter Packs Govan who organised a community party. As usual you fell for the bait without reading the Herald article. I was at The Govan Fair on Friday night. It receives minimal public support certainly in comparison with the recently established West End festival and The Mela which of course will be hooching with politicians of all shades of puce.


You presumed along with other correspondents that all the parties in Glasgow were organised by the Orange Order. So where were the SNP councillors when these grants were approved? Down at the lacal Knights club?

You do assume a lot in your desperate attempts to twist things to suit your poor points. As usual, you are well wide of the mark.

You also conveniently side step answering any questions or points.

You are not a puce coloured politician are you?

[Pat]

I was of course referring to Starter Packs Govan who organised a community party. As usual you fell for the bait without reading the Herald article. I was at The Govan Fair on Friday night. It receives minimal public support certainly in comparison with the recently established West End festival and The Mela which of course will be hooching with politicians of all shades of puce.


You presumed along with other correspondents that all the parties in Glasgow were organised by the Orange Order. So where were the SNP councillors when these grants were approved? Down at the lacal Knights club?

Aye, Dex. That's twice I've mentioned the Govan Lunch Party now. Are you just reading samsc's posts? - that's rude.

And you shouldn't really be classifying their event as a Jubilee Party when they don't

[Dexter St. Clair]

Humza Yousaf, SNP MSP for Glasgow, has called on the city council to spell out its engagement with the Orange Order.

Last night he said: "Money from the public purse has been given to various Jubilee parties, which are largely being organised by Orange lodges across the city, on the proviso they will be open and inclusive to other communities. I would be keen to hear what attempts have been made to reach out to Glasgow's diverse communities and other faith groups in particular."

Good question, Humza. If anyone wants to organise a Jubilee Party then that's fair enough but how many of us want to fund the 'fun'?

Big mistake by Glasgow City Council.

Why didn't they go ahead and organise a big fun day for kids with the money or toss some money towards the West End Festival or similar community events?

No mention of Starter Packs Govan here. Humza Yousaf's rant swallowed whole. No investigation of the SNP's role in approving these grants at local committee level either.

I await the SNP's motion to ban the Orange Order and the other one which will turn all schools in to non denominational entities. I anticipate a long wait.

[Pat]

No mention of Starter Packs Govan here. Humza Yousaf's rant swallowed whole. No investigation of the SNP's role in approving these grants at local committee level either.

I await the SNP's motion to ban the Orange Order and the other one which will turn all schools in to non denominational entities. I anticipate a long wait.

I've extracted from post 45 above, Dex. Hope this is of help to you:

I do realise the SNP is relying on the gullibility of the electorate to win the referendum but one should always keep in mind Louis Heren's adage "When a politician tells you something in confidence, always ask yourself Why is this lying ###### lying to me?" I look forward to

And according to this report the Govan jubilee party organised by a local community group went well.

http://www.heraldsco...e-park.17769612. I do believe the kids had a big fun day.

Great. I mentioned that one elsewhere and promoted it for the group. Super bunch of individuals involved.

... I see we're to have marches in Partick, Maryhill and Coocaddens.

Shame we couldn't have the WEF parade.

Only eight street parties in the city but I hear there are some alternative celebrations planned.
Magpie Street Party in Govan is one that I know of. Then Arches have organised a big mystery spot celebration with buses heading out of town.

The people in Govan went to some length to clarify what their party was about - more of an alternative celebration:
"The other street parties may be focusing on the Queen's Diamond Jubilee but we are of course taking our own unique approach. We're taking the diamond theme and we're calling it 'Govan Sparkles' - the event will focus on what's great about Govan and it will be a celebration of all the wonderful things which have happened here over the past 60 years. It will be a family event with face painting, live music and of course cake! We're using the street party as an opportunity to bring the community together, we want to see lots of chatting and laughter as people come together to celebrate all that's great about Govan." http://www.glasgowwe...xhibitions.html

West enders who receive public money to fund the West End Festival and The Mela should be cautious about criticising other community celeebrations. It's hundreds of pounds compared to thousands. I look forward to Humza Yousaf's comments on these grants.

Aye so they should - if they were criticising community celebrations per se.



Sorry to be so repetitive.

[Dexter St. Clair]

Humza Yousaf, SNP MSP for Glasgow, has called on the city council to spell out its engagement with the Orange Order.

Last night he said: "Money from the public purse has been given to various Jubilee parties, which are largely being organised by Orange lodges across the city, on the proviso they will be open and inclusive to other communities. I would be keen to hear what attempts have been made to reach out to Glasgow's diverse communities and other faith groups in particular."

Good question, Humza. If anyone wants to organise a Jubilee Party then that's fair enough but how many of us want to fund the 'fun'?

Big mistake by Glasgow City Council.

Why didn't they go ahead and organise a big fun day for kids with the money or toss some money towards the West End Festival or similar community events?

You could have mentioned it here but you didn't.

Humza Yousaf's statement is not questioned. Here's an answer for his as you say "good question". Probably fewer attempts to reach out were made in flinging resources at Street Parties in East Pollokshields at Diwali. Did he question the funding of a bus to Carfin for the group from an east end parish club? Of course not. They're typical local area committee decisions just like the ones taken to fund street parties. But he's sore that his party failed to take Glasgow as he and his pals threatened so he's having a go.

He failed to mention that it was local area committees who made the decisions not Glasgow City Council. No mention that SNP councillors voted on it. No understanding of how they can arrive at that decision.

How much funding and resources have been tossed towards The West End Festival and The Mela at Kelvingrove? A lot more than was put towards street parties in Glasgow.

[samscafeamericain]

You could have mentioned it here but you didn't.

Humza Yousaf's statement is not questioned. Here's an answer for his as you say "good question". Probably fewer attempts to reach out were made in flinging resources at Street Parties in East Pollokshields at Diwali. Did he question the funding of a bus to Carfin for the group from an east end parish club? Of course not. They're typical local area committee decisions just like the ones taken to fund street parties. But he's sore that his party failed to take Glasgow as he and his pals threatened so he's having a go.

He failed to mention that it was local area committees who made the decisions not Glasgow City Council. No mention that SNP councillors voted on it. No understanding of how they can arrive at that decision.

How much funding and resources have been tossed towards The West End Festival and The Mela at Kelvingrove? A lot more than was put towards street parties in Glasgow.

You show a staggering level of either ignorance or deceit. You are now equating funds to a religious group to travel to a Scottish Shrine with support for the orange order. Seriously disturbing views Dex, seriously disturbing.

[Pat]

You could have mentioned it here but you didn't.

Well actually I did - post 45 and prior to that on the Jubilee Thread. Although you were insistent that I didn't mention it at all.

Humza Yousaf's statement is not questioned. Here's an answer for his as you say "good question". Probably fewer attempts to reach out were made in flinging resources at Street Parties in East Pollokshields at Diwali. Did he question the funding of a bus to Carfin for the group from an east end parish club? Of course not. They're typical local area committee decisions just like the ones taken to fund street parties. But he's sore that his party failed to take Glasgow as he and his pals threatened so he's having a go.

He failed to mention that it was local area committees who made the decisions not Glasgow City Council. No mention that SNP councillors voted on it. No understanding of how they can arrive at that decision.

Now you're starting to make a relevant point. I won't assume to know why Yousaf is angry but you're providing some clarification regarding decision making for funding events. Although I'm still not sure who is responsible for funding functions that most of Glasgow's population don't want.

How much funding and resources have been tossed towards The West End Festival and The Mela at Kelvingrove? A lot more than was put towards street parties in Glasgow.

I think we now need some clarification from you on what you classify as a street party? I haven't heard anyone objecting to funding of community street parties? You're all over the place with this one Dex.

[tig]

labour fan boy tries to deflect the attention away from the bias labour council grants by blaming the snp?

what about govan...what about the mela?.....what about the WEF?.....nothing to do with the actual topic of conversation.....no attempts at justification....just an attack on a party that probably had very little say in it..

how many labour councillors voted to give the grants to the orange order Dex?....it is a labour run council after all

Dexter has been told off on other forums for bringing his anti snp stance into every conversation.

maybe he should be on here too

[Pat]

labour fan boy tries to deflect the attention away from the bias labour council grants by blaming the snp?

what about govan...what about the mela?.....what about the WEF?.....nothing to do with the actual topic of conversation.....no attempts at justification....just an attack on a party that probably had very little say in it..

how many labour councillors voted to give the grants to the orange order Dex?....it is a labour run council after all

Dexter has been told off on other forums for bringing his anti snp stance into every conversation.

maybe he should be on here too

Tig, I'm pretty disinterested in what goes on on other forums. On this thread we're talking about Cooncils.

[tig]

Tig, I'm pretty disinterested in what goes on on other forums. On this thread we're talking about Cooncils.

was just pointing out that its the same all over with him....[edited by Pat]
no one can ever criticise our dear labour council without Dex jumping down their throat and blaming the snp for everything....there isnt that much in the way of discussion when he usually doesnt respond to questions or points raised, but just carries on his main agenda of scoring brownie points in anti snp propaganda quest.

im not a fan of any politician or party but it gets kind of monotonous and tedious and it often detracts from the actual discussion.

[Pat]

was just pointing out that its the same all over with him....[edited by Pat]
no one can ever criticise our dear labour council without Dex jumping down their throat and blaming the snp for everything....there isnt that much in the way of discussion when he usually doesnt respond to questions or points raised, but just carries on his main agenda of scoring brownie points in anti snp propaganda quest.

im not a fan of any politician or party but it gets kind of monotonous and tedious and it often detracts from the actual discussion.

Don't know that samsc would agree with you, tig.
The Mods are expected to read more or less everything but picking and choosing is an option open to members.

[harper]

Can't claim to know the ins and outs of the local council, tigs but I think the political barbs are traded fairly even handedly on the Forum, unless you're a Tory and then everybody wades in...

[tig]

your both right of course
but his troll like behavior, attacks on people who say anything about his beloved party rather than discussing any issue and refusing to answer any points asked of him while he demands "evidence" for everything does nothing for any debate and only belittles the nature of any forum.