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harper

Scottish Independence ...

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All minutia. All matters we can deal with proper;ly when independent. All matters being used to create smoke and mirrors; remember when it wa sthe economy they used. Scotland couldn't afford to be independent - well the silence on that issue speaks volumes. Issues relating to armed forces, who cares that will sort itself out, probably be an EU force by then anyway. debt, bring it on, apportion our share, but also apportion our share of the equity we own in the various banks, you can also reapportion the VAT collected centrally from oil and gas that have swelled London's coffers.

The people of Scotland have had to be taken on this journey step by step. They couldn't vote of independence but devolution was good. The latest SNP landslide (despite the doomsayers) is testament to that. If devolution max is the next step on the road so be it. But make no mistake, independence is coming, you can taste it, you can feel it and the unionists know it.

Ask what the unionist strategy is to fight off indepoendence? More scare tactics perhaps?

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Margo McDonald was fighting for Home rule for Scotland while Alex Salmond was still wet beind the lugs. If Margo's concerned, I'm concerned. If Devo-Max is such good option why has it not been mooted before? Why the change of heart?

Pass the dim sum ... :)

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Margo McDonald was fighting for Home rule for Scotland while Alex Salmond was still wet beind the lugs. If Margo's concerned, I'm concerned. If Devo-Max is such good option why has it not been mooted before? Why the change of heart?

Pass the dim sum ... :)

Alex Salmond is delivering, there's the difference. Devo-Max is simply to head off the West Minister Government sticking its oar into the independence ballot, if it did, who knows we may see 45% quotas appearing and whatnot.

I really don't care what it takes and how many steps it takes to get Scotland independent, the sooner the better. But its a journey that has to take all of our people with it. I hope when it comes to it Scots will have the same courage they did at the last Holyrood elections.

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He is indeed, Sam but isn't there a danger that people may vote for the step down option - just to play it safe and then stick there? And wouldn't it be nice to have a no-fault divorce and remain on reasonable terms with England?

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He is indeed, Sam but isn't there a danger that people may vote for the step down option - just to play it safe and then stick there? And wouldn't it be nice to have a no-fault divorce and remain on reasonable terms with England?

Of course, and we will always remain on great terms with England, Wales and Ireland. This is not so much about breaking up because we hate but about breaking away because what we want and need cannot be delivered within the UK. There will always be a danger that a step down option will be voted for, that's the chance you take.

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I refer my honourable friend to my previous answer...ooops!

Hope you're not to busy in the East to smooth out this one, samsc. :)

It seems there is the possibility of the Coalition holding its own vote on independence and Lord Forsyth of Drumlean, a Tory peer has accused Alex Salmond of seeking to sabotage a Westminster backed independence referendum. Apparently in an interchange with George Osborne, Salmond had stated that he would prevent police officers aiding the running of such a poll.

A spokesman for Mr Salmond said last night said that he knows nothing about any such discussion.

Apparently another Conservative, Lord Cormack, suggested that the First Minister could be compared to Mugabe or his predecessor Ian Smith, who declared Rhodesia's independence from the UK in 1979.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/salmond-is-accused-of-sabotage-threat-to-poll-1.1132347

I doubt Salmond would be objecting if there was a referendum at Westminster. :rolleyes:

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Hooray, the Mugabe/Hitler card has been played.

You were expecting that, samsc? :rolleyes:

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You were expecting that, samsc? :rolleyes:

The rationale for the devo max has been proven with the unionists trying to take control of the referendum. The unionists no longer chunter on about Scotland cannot afford to be free, so they have to have some other scare story - they also need to tarnish Salmond since he, plust Sturgeon and Swinney have been running rings round the rest up here.

Once you play the Mugabe/Hitler card you know your argument is seriously flawed

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Alex Salmond is a good politican but he will never be a great one, Sam. He doesn't take enough care to differentiate between the personal and the political. It's high time he stopped the anti English sneering and jeering and got on with his job!

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Alex Salmond is a good politican but he will never be a great one, Sam. He doesn't take enough care to differentiate between the personal and the political. It's high time he stopped the anti English sneering and jeering and got on with his job!

Whether Scotland gains Independence or not the two countries will have to work closely together so good relationships should be strived for.

Today's Herald is a bit full of doom and gloom with Citigroup warning off investors in renewable energy in Scotland if the country gains Independence.

"Renewable investors risk seeing their assets stranded in a newly independent Scotland."

http://www.heraldsco...tment-1.1132544

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Whether Scotland gains Independence or not the two countries will have to work closely together so good relationships should be strived for.

Today's Herald is a bit full of doom and gloom with Citigroup warning off investors in renewable energy in Scotland if the country gains Independence.

"Renewable investors risk seeing their assets stranded in a newly independent Scotland."

http://www.heraldsco...tment-1.1132544

I cannot believe Citigroup put their name to that ill thought out report. Its akin to suggesting that oil companies in West Africa should stop drilling for oil because the West African economies are too small to use all of that oil up!!! Sounds like someone has spun themselves into a hole.

Alex Salmond is a great politician, and he does not criticise the English, he criticises Westminster.

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Old news, Sam.

Now, what are the full social and strategic implications for Scotland and what is the strategy?

Hurry back ...

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Old news, Sam.

Now, what are the full social and strategic implications for Scotland and what is the strategy?

Hurry back ...

Oh I think you'll find that remains unpalatable news for many. As I have said before, however, its interesting how the unionist 'scare the Scots' agenda no longer includes the economy and the argument that Scotland cannot fend for itself.

Scotland's strategy is simple, the right to full self determination.

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It is old news, Sam and I am feeling that it is just as convenient for the SNP to keep going over old ground that set out a blueprint of what an independent Scotland would look like.

Within 4 years the SNP will be asking for my vote, my family's vote and the votes of my friends. I think it is reasonable to expect the SNP to outline their strategy on how this will be achieved and what it will look like. I really do think we need to see the workings in the margain on this one, no?

I really don't want to hear any more scaremongering Unionists stories. I want to know how the SNP propose to lead Scotland to independence and what it will look like. I want information. At this stage, we need more than the "yes we can" mantra.

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Sorry Harper I am not quite sure what it is you are seeking in your search for strategy?

Do you want to know the mechanics of how Scotland will be decoupled from the UK?

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"Within 4 years the SNP will be asking for my vote, my family's vote .."

I had somehow thought that you lived in London. It's possible that I am mistaken in this.

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You are absolutely right but I still have family in Scotland and we have been dye in the wool supporters of Home Rule since the early days of Winnie Ewing et al.

I have also been a member if the SNP for more years than I care to remember and work with their London fundraising branch. There are many Scots living outside their country who care deeply about the future of Scotland, even though they stand to gain no benefit from an independent Scotland.

I hope to move back to Scotland in the next few years and that is when my vote will count. There are many Scots who technically give up their right to vote nationally, on the basis of one party membership The rest of us just fudge it.

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You are absolutely right but I still have family in Scotland and we have been dye in the wool supporters of Home Rule since the early days of Winnie Ewing et al.

I have also been a member if the SNP for more years than I care to remember and work with their London fundraising branch. There are many Scots living outside their country who care deeply about the future of Scotland, even though they stand to gain no benefit from an independent Scotland.

I hope to move back to Scotland in the next few years and that is when my vote will count. There are many Scots who technically give up their right to vote nationally, on the basis of one party membership The rest of us just fudge it.

Hope you will be home sooner rather than later, harper.

Who knows what's going to happen regarding Independence. Labour and the Coalition seem to be dead set on knocking it on the head. Today The Herald points to various problems and Independent Scotland would have to deal with including the destruction of their shipbuilding industry!!!

It seems that The Royal Navy would be placing their orders elsewhere should Scotland pull out of the Union.

Here's some more of what Alex Salmond calls 'scaremongering'

"Chancellor George Osborne’s claims the Scottish economy is being damaged by uncertainty over the country’s future."

"Warnings an independent Scotland may be liable for €9.8 billion (£8.3bn) in the EU stability fund."

"Scottish Secretary Michael Moore seizing on a report by finance group Citigroup, which warned quitting the UK would leave Scotland too small to afford £4bn green energy subsidies."

"Claims by UK Government lawyers an an independent Scotland would have to apply to join the EU, a process that could take up to three years and cost Scottish taxpayers billions."

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/politics/defence-jobs-warning-in-new-attack-on-independence-1.1134882

You're almost torn between feeling very wanted or wishing that 1707 have never happened.

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Cos the UK will be a duller place without the Union, IMV. I hate to see Scotland split off from Wales and Ireland (UK), especially.

Maybe devo-max will be the answer? Maybe it's time to start describing "independence" in more realistic and less divisive terms because it doesn't seem that any current proposals would result in a totally independent Scotland.

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Cos the UK will be a duller place without the Union, IMV. I hate to see Scotland split off from Wales and Ireland (UK), especially.

Maybe devo-max will be the answer? Maybe it's time to start describing "independence" in more realistic and less divisive terms because it doesn't seem that any current proposals would result in a totally independent Scotland.

We could be part of the Commonswealth and, therefore, able to meet with Australia, some of the African States etc to make important decisions about who might be the next Queen.

Not unless there's a complete huff.

At the rate the argy bargy is developing there might be civil war or Theresa starting work on a really solid border control plan at Gretna.

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