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harper

Scottish Independence ...

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The OCH AYE brigade scaremongering oh the shame.

I'm very scared that National Service Bill comes to anything and even more scared that Russia's bellicose actions trigger a war, Dex. Is that scaremongering?

Would Cameron siding with USA push a YES vote forward - possibly but I would much prefer that he did not.

I have moved from a firm stance of being an entrenched Labour supporter, who viewed Independence as Nationalism, which has never rattled my cage. I have become so disgusted with the actions of this present government, who are intent on pushing a Tory ideology, attacking the most vulnerable members of society and breaking up the welfare system that I am totally scunnered. I am ashamed to live in a rich country, where the working poor, child poverty, homelessness, fuel poverty and foodbanks, are all now common place. It is a disgrace.

Then there is the rise of UKIP.

An Independent Scotland offers an opportunity to move away from a Government who cares nothing for its people. I have been persuaded by no campaign but by looking at what is going on in this unjust society.

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London chat in our office today....

Cameron has no interest in running a good campaign because he wants a YES vote, thus giving him a clear run in England for a safe Tory win....

Any merit?

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London chat in our office today....

Cameron has no interest in running a good campaign because he wants a YES vote, thus giving him a clear run in England for a safe Tory win....

Any merit?

none whatsoever. Scotland's votes last changed the outcome of an election in the early 1960s. Since then what middle England wants middle England gets. There is a slight argument that Scottish votes in 2010 changed the election from a Tory win to a coalition.

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London chat in our office today....

Cameron has no interest in running a good campaign because he wants a YES vote, thus giving him a clear run in England for a safe Tory win....

Any merit?

I don't think that sounds very convincing, harper. Scotland's vote has rarely influenced the outcome of who gets in at Westminster. I also think that Cameron is pretty keen to hang onto Scotland - he thinks we're better together.

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ive also heard this harper and i do think it should be considered...some have suspected that some in ~BT~ have deliberately lead a rubbish campaign for this reason.

although as said above we rarely matter when it comes to general elections, i dont think there would ever be a labour gov in the uk again if we got indy.

without the scots labour votes theyd find it really hard to get elected.

either way i dont really care as long as we get out of the uk...what the rest do then is up to them.

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Billy Bragg's view

As the debate over Scottish independence hots up, it is becoming clear that some voters in Scotland are worried that a yes vote in September will condemn the English to never-ending rule by the Tories. While I appreciate their concern, especially on St George's Day, the argument that Scots must vote no in order to save the English from neoliberalism simply doesn't add up.

Since the second world war, the votes of the Scottish electorate have only been decisive on three occasions – the general elections of 1964, 1974 and 2010 – each time preventing the Tories from winning a tiny majority. Scottish votes would not have stopped Margaret Thatcher, nor denied Tony Blair his three election wins.

In fact, there is an argument to be made that the Scottish electorate played an important part in entrenching the neoliberal agenda at Westminster. Safe in the knowledge that the majority of Scots would always vote Labour, Tony Blair felt confident enough to move his party to the centre ground and embrace the free market. New Labour was built on the back of the Scottish electorate.

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The shock of losing its Scottish MPs might encourage Labour to rediscover its traditional supporters in England. South of the border, the majority would welcome the renationalisation of the railways and utilities, and there is overwhelming support for rebalancing the housing market.

And support for the union is not as strong as it once was. A 2013 survey by the IPPR thinktank found that 60% felt Englishness was more important to them than Britishness, with only 16% feeling the opposite. This sea change in English consciousness is topped off by a poll this week showing a real appetite for devolution in England: it found that 65% of voters agreed with the proposition, "Too much of England is run from London", the view being strongest among Labour voters (78%).

Read more on Scottish independence
• 'I believe in solidarity with the folk living south of Carlisle'
• 'The UK is on shifting sands – we can't assume survival'
• 'Better Together is truly scraping the barrel now'

The fact is that far from fearing the breakup of the UK, the English are looking at the benefits that devolution has brought the Scots and asking why they are not able to enjoy the same. Students in England struggling to pay their tuition fees are wondering how it is that their Scottish peers, living in the same country, don't pay anything at all; those in England forced to sell their houses to pay for personal care for elderly relatives are asking why British citizens in Scotland get those services for free; and patients and nursing staff who have to deal with the harsh reality of the free market intruding into the English NHS look in envy towards Scotland, where privatisation has been minimal.

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Devolution has delivered real benefits to the people of Scotland, allowing them to vary their services and taxes in a manner that reflects a different polity to that emanating from Westminster. Is there a reason why the English can't be trusted to run more of their own affairs?

It's not just the Scots who are pulling at the threads of the British state. The ambiguous results of the last general election have put the Westminster system under great stress. It was designed to function best with a two-party system, but the electorate no longer seem wedded to that model. The disaffection that casts a pall over parliament has many sources, but the underlying sense that our votes no longer make a difference has the ability to do the most damage.

An English parliament would seem to be the simple answer to this problem, but I would worry that such a body would be too big, too distant and too centralised to really deliver devolved power to local communities. A series of regional assemblies, each with the same powers Holyrood now enjoys, would go some way to overcoming voters' concerns that the big decisions are being made elsewhere by corporate players who have no interest in the welfare of our society.

England would benefit greatly from devolution, but if the Scots vote for the status quo in September all this talk of decentralisation will be put to one side, just as the notion of a fair voting system was dismissed after the failure of the AV referendum.

If the Scots want to show some solidarity with the people in England who feel trapped in a centralised state where cheap credit, privatisation and deregulation are the only solutions offered, they should vote yes to independence and set us all free.

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as soon as i seen that on kds i knew youd stick it on here

comedy gold that is

:lol::lol:

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I didn't like this business at all. It shows a very ugly side of politics, when in the midst of such a terrible situation in the Ukraine fellow politicians using something something that was said completely out of context. I think just about everyone thought that the Winter Olympics were fantastic and a credit to Russia, whilst holding reservations about certain aspects such as attitudes towards homosexuality.

At least the full situation was explained on the News. No matter what the party Salmond is the First Minister of the Scottish Parliament. To many he represents this country. No person from the Ukraine, or elsewhere, should believe that he or we support this horrific civil war or the man behind it. For Davidson and Lamont to present this as the case is shocking and disgraceful.

They are doing themselves no favours. I would never support any Conservative and have no admiration for Davidson. However I often admired Annabel Goldie and think she would be above such behaviour. As for Lamont – you would surely think that Labour could come up with someone more effective and even a wee bit likeable.

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Annabelle Gouldie was an excellent politician and had a real sense of respect about her.

Lamont looks to be completely out of her depth.

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No matter what the party Salmond is the First Minister of the Scottish Parliament. To many he represents this country. No person from the Ukraine, or elsewhere, should believe that he or we support this horrific civil war or the man behind it. For Davidson and Lamont to present this as the case is shocking and disgraceful.....

the west/eu supporting a coup against the democratically elected leaders is what kicked it all off wasnt it?

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the west/eu supporting a coup against the democratically elected leaders is what kicked it all off wasnt it?

Think you're right there, tig.

It's really sad watching these troubled places. I don't know how politicians can make use of just about any situation to gain a point. They must think we are daft.

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The Herald announces for Independence, advises its readers to vote YES

has the tipping point been reached?

Think you might need the Mail and the Post for that, samsc? Lovely thistle by Alasdair Gray.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/sunday-herald-is-first-paper-to-back-scottish-independence.1399149163

Strange that no other newspaper is for Independence. They're obviously not independent.

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Feels like it... by the amount of abuse I am getting at work...

"If Scotland goes independent can we send you lot home and get our jobs back?"

hmm, and three days before his appraisal with moi. :rolleyes:

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Feels like it... by the amount of abuse I am getting at work...

"If Scotland goes independent can we send you lot home and get our jobs back?"

hmm, and three days before his appraisal with moi. :rolleyes:

Is that Racism?

Derek Bateman has an interesting take on it: http://derekbateman.co.uk/2014/05/02/nation-shall-speak-pish-unto-nation/

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I had a pal pick me up a souvenir copy of the Sunday Herald today. Sold out in Blairgowrie and Dunkeld, nabbed the last one in a Pitlochry shop. It's a turning point, if you ask me. Victory is in the wind. I read the editorial to Mrs. Sgriob, who sniffled and went all shiny eyed on me. She used to do that without newspaper editorials.

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Feels like it... by the amount of abuse I am getting at work...

"If Scotland goes independent can we send you lot home and get our jobs back?"

hmm, and three days before his appraisal with moi. :rolleyes:

Of course he can, just as long as they send back the £billions in oil money as well

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Mrs. Sgriob, who sniffled and went all shiny eyed on me. She used to do that without newspaper editorials.

:lol: Have you tried peeling onions under her nose

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Copies of The Herald selling on eBay.

Today the paper reports that gamblers will go for Independence.

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Well done Premier Inns :D

BmvCuTiCMAIzP70.jpg

That's smart – and hilarious.

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