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Pat's Guide to Glasgow West End
harper

Scottish Independence ...

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These things are all well and good but how many of them have "contributed to the life of the average Scot"?

Feudal tenure? Crofting Reform? Fur farms? How many 'average Scots' actually pay for presecriptions or benefit from care for the elderly? How many 'average Scots' get free tuition?

Not sure what makes an 'average' Scot, G12bloke. However, given that there's a high percentage of elderly in the population, then there's bound to be a vast number benefiting from free care for the elderly.

All Scottish students will reap the benefit of free tuition and most people will pay for prescriptions so commitment to these policies by the Scottish Parliament is appreciated by many.

Some of the other things you mention, such as Crofting Reform, don't necessarily impact upon my life but that doesn't mean that I don't see them as worthwhile.

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C'mon Mr. LarryTrooper. That's way out of order. Why spoil a decent discussion with careless language? If you weren't being careless and this is your way of informing us of your BDSM proclivities, then I apologise. Doesn't mean you're a bad person.

What did Larry say out of order and what is BDSM B)

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I would let you know Maggs but am a wee bit tied up at this moment :lol:

So long as you don't get yourself in a fankle, samsc.:)

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.. and back on topic laugh.gif

Two reasons why they should have held the Referendum... rolleyes.gif

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11555811

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11547485

Good news about free prescriptions. However, I'm wondering what John Swinney means when he says that Scotland can't afford the Union and then goes on to explain that:

"In fact, at a time when the UK is cutting our budget, Scotland was in surplus to the tune of well over a billion pounds, compared to a UK deficit of almost £50bn."

"At a time of severe spending restraint, Mr Swinney said the Scottish government had saved almost £1.5bn during 2009-10, but warned "significant challenges" remained."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11547485

Is he worrying that with the cuts such savings will not be possible. I know we Scots are renowned for being a bit tight but that seems like quite a lot of money to hold on to.

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Good news about free prescriptions. However, I'm wondering what John Swinney means when he says that Scotland can't afford the Union and then goes on to explain that:

"In fact, at a time when the UK is cutting our budget, Scotland was in surplus to the tune of well over a billion pounds, compared to a UK deficit of almost £50bn."

"At a time of severe spending restraint, Mr Swinney said the Scottish government had saved almost £1.5bn during 2009-10, but warned "significant challenges" remained."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11547485

Is he worrying that with the cuts such savings will not be possible. I know we Scots are renowned for being a bit tight but that seems like quite a lot of money to hold on to.

£100 billion to replace trident??? Dear Gawd, scrap trident and retain current spending plans which will not drag the UK back into recession

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£100 billion to replace trident??? Dear Gawd, scrap trident and retain current spending plans which will not drag the UK back into recession

That sounds sensible.

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Was that a locking click or an unlocking click?

Never mind. None of my business.

Naughty boy obscene-smiley-1005.gifangry-smiley-8019.gif

Sorry folks for going off subject, it won't happen again :)

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Naughty boy obscene-smiley-1005.gif

Sorry folks for goinf off subject, it won't happen again :lol:

Aye, heard it, Maggs, but take it easy.

Don't know if tam will cope. :)

Back to harper's links.

I think it might have been a good time to have a referendum.

The newspaper article explaining John Swinney's view is more effective than when he was interviewed.

Information plus passion and conviction might do the job. Anyone available?

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OK Pat sorted it :lol: , you need to sort yours or you look as if you are being naughty :)

Thanks for the advice. I've sorted that, though I'm never naughty.

I was only kidding you. I'm putting thst back. :)

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Mention of John Swinney reminds me that he's known as 'Hollywood not Holyrood' in certain circles. I believe it's a reference to a certain form of celebrity waxing particularly popular in the kind of movies favoured by Richard Timney.

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Mention of John Swinney reminds me that he's known as 'Hollywood not Holyrood' in certain circles. I believe it's a reference to a certain form of celebrity waxing particularly popular in the kind of movies favoured by Richard Timney.

Clearly very witty circles

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"Devo-Max"? "Independence Lite"? No wonder Margo is having a touch of the vapours .... :unsure:

http://www.scotsman....dence_1_1925836

Alex Salmond's Party Speech was certainly rousing but isn't it time he stopped shouting that it is Wesminster's fault at every opportunity and come up with a strategy for independence?

And what's with the third option? Pragmatic solution or cop out?

Whadda you say, Sam?

Edited by poster.

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"Devo-Max"? "Independence Lite"? No wonder Margo is having a touch of the vapours .... :unsure:

http://www.scotsman....dence_1_1925836

Alex Salmond's Party Speech was certainly rousing but isn't it time he stopped shouting that it is Wesminster's fault at every opportunity and come up with a strategy for independence?

And what's with the third option? Pragmatic solution or cop out?

Whadda you say, Sam?

Edited by poster.

I think the approach is probably meant to be pragmatic, harper, although could be confusing.

An interesting view in today's Guardian that the UK is "sleep-walking towards breakup, either soon through Scottish independence, or more slowly as the inequalities and frustrations on Westminster rule, real and perceived, take their toll."

Also points out that identities within the UK are "multiple, personal and changeable".

As Prof Mitchell of Strathclyde Uni points out even Salmond wants to retain the pound, military bases ( apart from nuclear weapons) and the Queen - as he says the options are more grey than they are black and white.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/oct/23/scottish-independence-wakeup-call-editorial

I don't think Salmond is anticipating the Flower of Scotland Scotland that the fanatics envisage.

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Although I have had great admiration for Alex Salmond, he a far cry from Winnie Ewing and Margo McDonald, the politicians that inspired me, at 18, to joint the SNP. I would like to believe Devo-Max is a pragmatic move but in truth, I suspect it is a bit of a climb down.

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It is Westminsters fault. We have squandered 35 years of black gold under their watch, now as a nation we have another 40 years to do something right with oil and gas rather than waste it giving tax cuts to the super rich and waging war on people.

Devolution max has to be addressed, Westminster is now trying to hijack the independence referendum, it makes sense to agree to devolution max being on the ballot and keeping control.

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OK blame Westminster but then park, work up a strategy and get on with it!

I think there is a danger that people may play it safe and vote for Devo-Max because there is no clear blueprint of what an Independent Scotland would look like. It could well be a missed opportunity that will result in people settling for far less than they could have achieved.

Come on Sam, how are people supposed to make an informed decision?

Get back to me after the bird's nest soup.

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OK blame Westminster but then park, work up a strategy and get on with it!

I think there is a danger that people may play it safe and vote for Devo-Max because there is no clear blueprint of what an Independent Scotland would look like. It could well be a missed opportunity that will result in people settling for far less than they could have achieved.

Come on Sam, how are people supposed to make an informed decision?

Get back to me after the bird's nest soup.

It all seems a bit confusing. According to The Independent:

"Going it alone: What could happen?

Taxation Whether it is called 'independence lite' or 'devolution max', achieving full control of how and how much Scotland's population is taxed is key to the concept. This week, the SNP has called for Air Passenger Duty to be immediately handed to the Scottish government at Holyrood.

Parliament The balance of governance for the rest of the UK would be dramatically affected, with all Scottish MPs removed from the Commons, benefitting England's high number of Tory MPs. The House of Lords would make way for a revised, confederate second chamber.

Diplomacy Overseas representation would stay a joint matter, funded by the Treasury in London with Scottish contributions.

Defence The armed forces would stay the preserve of UK-wide politics, but the first sight of war could challenge Britain's last vestiges of unity if the Scottish parliament and Westminster were at odds.

The Royal Family The Queen would remain head of state north of the border, which should not be problematic given that many now-independent countries have kept Elizabeth II as their figurehead."

I think there are some who would find this very problematic.

Then what about the debt? Would it be written off. I doubt it. :rolleyes:

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