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harper

Scottish Independence ...

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Aw Come on Sam. New clichés required here.

Who were the front line troops for perfidious Albion but Scotsmen on the make.

And there always will be Scotsmen and women on the make and their modern equivalents will be dragged out uncle Tom like to denounce Scotland as unable to stand on her own two feet.

Here's something to think about. If this union is so good for Scotland why is it Ireland (for all of its troubles) and with a population of just over £3 MILLION already has a GDP matching that of Scotland. Indeed, before 2008 they comfortably outperformed us. The UK and its London centred policies are a drag on the rest of the UK.

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And there always will be Scotsmen and women on the make and their modern equivalents will be dragged out uncle Tom like to denounce Scotland as unable to stand on her own two feet.

Those doing the dragging out will be descendants of the Scots who cleared the Highlands? Will they be wearing kilts or just the usual Saltire shirt?

When was Uncle Tom dragged out? I'd love to see a photograph. Was he wearing a kilt or some other skirt?

The UK and its London centred policies are a drag on the rest of the UK.

This needs retyped to make sense. Was it a Scottish education you had?

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Those doing the dragging out will be descendants of the Scots who cleared the Highlands? Will they be wearing kilts or just the usual Saltire shirt?

When was Uncle Tom dragged out? I'd love to see a photograph. Was he wearing a kilt or some other skirt?

This needs retyped to make sense. Was it a Scottish education you had?

Come on Dex, stump up

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jan/15/queen-royal-yacht-diamond-jubilee-gove

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I laways have

running in the backgroound when reading Sam's clichéd missives. I am waiting for "parcel of rogues to appear".

Thank for the reference to the current Scottish head of State ( and who will continue regardless of the outcome of the referendum) but couldn't you find a Scottish paper's report, you Uncle Tam.

Prince_Charles_Kilt.jpg

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Sam, where they exist, let the lies be exposed and the slagging matches stopped. Let the matter be settled with strategy and due process based on facts.

And can we leave Uncle Tom/Tam out of this? :angry:

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Lots of issues arising, samsc. Some of them are pretty ridiculous but none more so than Pandagate.

The cost of relocating Trident won't appear to present a major problem and would we not be glad to see the back of it.

" The defence secretary, Philip Hammond, warned that, after independence, Scotland would have to pay "billions" for the cost of relocating Trident. This wasn't quite in the same league as losing the pandas, but was equally daft. I don't recall the Ukraine being required to build bases in Russia for the nuclear weapons it returned in 1994. Scotland never asked for weapons of mass destruction in the first place. Anyway, there's a simple enough solution: Trident nuclear warheads are moved by road convoy every year from Coulport to Aldermaston near Reading. Maybe they could just make a one-way trip in 2014. Scotland could pay for the diesel."

Then there's Mr Osbourne's threat that Scotland wouldn't be allowed to keep the pound?

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/are-independence-scare-stories-more-likely-to-have-the-opposite-effect.16544233

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The Level of debate indeed. I am sure anyone who saw Paxman's interview of Salmond tonight must shake their head at how pathetic Paxman has become these past few years. However, its endemic of how shrill the unionist argument has become.

The SNP has had to be clever in the way in which they deal with these interviews. They very rarely get a fair hearing in the media, mainly because they're up against several unionist parties and, more often than not when on UK-wide programs, a rather hostile interviewer.

Paxman's interview tonight was a good example; it's not possible for Salmond to win the argument using facts and reason because the questions aren't really questions, they're statements aimed at damaging Salmond. Paxman didn't inquire as to what Scotland's debt would be, he tried to paint a picture of it being huge. He didn't inquire as to how much of the UK gold reserves Salmond saw Scotland as being entitled to, he tried to portray Salmond as some sort of conniving thief of precious metals. On both occasions Salmond had to effectively provide his own questions in order to then answer.

What Salmond does well in this situation is to trust the viewer. He knows that we'll pick up on Paxman's unreasonable approach so he doesn't try to fight back. A less subtle politician may have been drawn into a shouting match or been tempted to give Paxman a taste of his own. He remains as jovial as possible, he knows Paxman is being unfair and, crucially, he knows we know it too.

This is the SNP's philosophy when it comes to the media; the idea that what you say about your opponents often says more about you than it does them. It's something Westminster has spectacularly failed to appreciate in recent weeks. Whatever you think of the substance of the debate, there's no doubt that The Tories/LD's have come across very badly on this side of the border. They've appeared bullying and disdainful, people don't vote for that. The SNP are more than happy to take the hits, turn to the voters and say; 'look how they're behaving.'

And this allows for their cleverest plan of all; they blur the line between attacks on the SNP and attacks on Scotland itself. When Paxman takes that tone, when the saboteurs in Westminster attempt another ploy, their spitefulness leaps out at you. It becomes, after a short while, difficult to trust anything they say with regards Scottish independence. Once you see the vemon from their mouths you start to believe that everything from that source must be toxic.

And finally, The Unionists aren't even trying to pretend they've got Scotlands interests at heart any more.

The disgraced, unelected, hereditary, Tory peer, Malcolm Ian Sinclair, 20th Earl of Caithness, lays down amendments to the Scotland Bill, to split Scotland up (or partition may be a more accurate & damning description) and steal it's oil if we have the temerity to vote for Independence, after forcing an internationally illegal second referendum for all the UK presumably in the hope that the result of the 1st would be overturned.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2010-2012/0079/amend/am079-o.htm

Interestingly the parts of Scotland he wants to be reserved to UK aren't say Wishaw, Dundee, or Saltcoats. No, oddly, he wants to keep Rockall, Shetland and Orkney. Wonder what possible motive he has for that.

Magnus, a previous Earl of Caithness, and signatory to the Declaration of Arbroath (For so long as there shall but one hundred of us remain alive we will never give consent to subject ourselves to the dominion of the English) must be turning in his grave.

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Interestingly the parts of Scotland he wants to be reserved to UK aren't say Wishaw, Dundee, or Saltcoats. No, oddly, he wants to keep Rockall, Shetland and Orkney. Wonder what possible motive he has for that.

Possibly because that's what the local population want of Shetland and Orkney want. I'll let you speak for the Rockaliens.

The Shetland Times

Here we go. Here we go. Here we go. My voice and prayer has been answered. At last the people of Shetland have political allies. Just watch Salmond’s Anglophobic and neo nationalist fantasies fall to dust. Crown dependency within a United Kingdom with or without Scotland. Just the ticket for Shetland.

- ian tinkler

January 24, 2012

As an English-born person (who has never heard of the Earl of Caithness) it strikes me as unlikely that you in Shetland would welcome being told by anyone – the Earl, the SNP or a Westminster elite – what you should do … but, as far as I can see from the reports, that isn’t what’s happening here, the Earl’s proposed amendments appear to draw attention to the logical extension of the principle of self-determination to your part of what is at the moment the UK.

When I’ve heard people say similar things in the past it’s usually been a challenge to Scottish nats who claim a “will of the people” right to independence at Scotland level (which I for one certainly respect as Scotland’s right, without personally wanting it to happen) whilst being unwilling to countenance the same right applying to smaller regions within/linked to Scotland.

Once politicians start disturbing boundaries, boundary effects are sometimes unpredicatable. I suspect that many UK citizens – Scots, English, or other – worry, like me, that a dangerously unpredictable chain of events is being set in motion just now.

- john gray

January 24, 2012

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Possibly because that's what the local population want of Shetland and Orkney want. I'll let you speak for the Rockaliens.

The Shetland Times

Two people writing to the local newspaper. I thought last time people were asked up there they all wanted to cede to Norway :-)

Keep dreaming Dex, still waiting for that cohesive argument for the UK

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How many letters would satisfy you that there is still a reluctance to think that Orkney and Shetland would receive better treatment from an Edinburgh based Government than a London based government.

This may cheer your po face up.

alex_salmond_referendum_ballot_paper.jpg?cda6c1

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Dex, that is the funniest thing I've seen all day!! :lol: Brilliant!!

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How many letters would satisfy you that there is still a reluctance to think that Orkney and Shetland would receive better treatment from an Edinburgh based Government than a London based government.

This may cheer your po face up.

alex_salmond_referendum_ballot_paper.jpg?cda6c1

Copy n pasting, is this what its come to Dex. Still waiting to hear why the Union is the preferred operating model for Scotland.

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How many letters would satisfy you that there is still a reluctance to think that Orkney and Shetland would receive better treatment from an Edinburgh based Government than a London based government.

This may cheer your po face up.

alex_salmond_referendum_ballot_paper.jpg?cda6c1

Actually in fairness that's a bloody good ballot paper :lol:

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What will they come up with next? I wish I knew exactly what was fact and what was rubbish.

I couldn't open the link. Drat, new computer as well. I've obviusly turned on some block function... :angry:

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I couldn't open the link. Drat, new computer as well. I've obviusly turned on some block function... :angry:

I think this should work, harper. Not your fault, nor the new computer's.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/mobile/politics/political-news/darling-attack-as-reserve-bank-row-escalates.1327633654?_=615b40819f4660d092d6a7c1af4f9466fc413af9

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