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#321 harper

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:55 AM

I think anyone who associates themselves with the SUN is piss poor and the point I am making is that Alex Salmond is no expection but you seem to think he is. :)
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#322 samscafeamericain

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:30 AM

I think anyone who associates themselves with the SUN is piss poor and the point I am making is that Alex Salmond is no expection but you seem to think he is. :)



?????

You seem to be trying to put words in my mouth?

Alex Salmond is a consumate politician, of that I have no doubt. He and the SNP are for me a means to an end.

Are you suggesting that Alex Salmond should ask the SUN not to back independence? Are there any other newspapers the SNP should disassociate themselves from?

Now back to Blair, Brown and Cameron and their toadying to Rupert, what's your view on that?
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#323 harper

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:37 AM

Actually, I expect better of Alex Salmond than Cameron, Balir and Brown which is why I commented that it was disappointing to see him endorsing this rag. If anyone is distorting the issue it is you, Sam. Do you not agree that the consumate politician, Alex Salmond, should be a bit more circumspect about his public endorsement of this rag? You see in my book, when you say you stand for something better you model something better and this falls far short, IMV.
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#324 Pat

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:33 AM

I can't for the life of me understand why Salmond has chosen to be linked in any way with Murdoch. I think it has been a serious error of judgement. So does the New Statesman, which paints him in a particularly poor light:

'For now, Mr Murdoch retains his ability to mesmerise politicians of left and right alike. The latest willing supplicant is the Scottish First Minister, Alex Salmond, who exclusively revealed to the Scottish Sun on Sunday his intention to hold an independence referendum on 18 October 2014. In the middle of the SNP's public consultation on the ballot, Mr Salmond, a self-described social democrat and pro-European, elected to tip-off an Australian-American newspaper proprietor before Scotland's five million voters. He has shown contempt for democracy and transparency and is shamelessly courting Murdoch just as Westminster MPs have done before him...'

'Bankers, politicians, the police and now the press - all have successively lost public confidence. The closing down of the Occupy camp at St Paul's in London on the day it was revealed that Barclays had attempted to avoid 500m in tax is symbolic of all that has gone wrong in British society in recent years. As long as our elected representatives continue to pay fealty to the old ways and the old order, there is little prospect of any improvement.'

http://www.newstates...mond-public-sun

Now I know The Sun has more readers than the New Statesman but their message doesn't miss the mark and their point of view is shared by many.
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#325 samscafeamericain

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:47 AM

Actually, I expect better of Alex Salmond than Cameron, Balir and Brown which is why I commented that it was disappointing to see him endorsing this rag. If anyone is distorting the issue it is you, Sam. Do you not agree that the consumate politician, Alex Salmond, should be a bit more circumspect about his public endorsement of this rag? You see in my book, when you say you stand for something better you model something better and this falls far short, IMV.


That's tosh and you know it.

If you think the fight for independence is evenly covered in the press then you are naive in the extreme. I await with baited breath the next instalment of 'The Scotsman's' you'll need visas to travel to England crap, etc.
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#326 harper

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:25 AM

Sam, I don't think I mentioned the press being even handed or otherwise. I was saying, AND WELL YOU KNOW IT, how disappointing it is to see Scotland's FM allying him so closely to the SUN, a view that Pat has expanded on and which you are chosing to ignore by throwing up a sh*t storm about something else. I have a high opinion of Alex Salmond and think at the heart of his poliitics he is a force for good. However, that doesn't mean he walks on water or that he is above criticism, based on his own individual choices and actions. :)
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#327 samscafeamericain

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 11:08 AM

Sam, I don't think I mentioned the press being even handed or otherwise. I was saying, AND WELL YOU KNOW IT, how disappointing it is to see Scotland's FM allying him so closely to the SUN, a view that Pat has expanded on and which you are chosing to ignore by throwing up a sh*t storm about something else. I have a high opinion of Alex Salmond and think at the heart of his poliitics he is a force for good. However, that doesn't mean he walks on water or that he is above criticism, based on his own individual choices and actions. :)



And I am saying you and Pat are failing to see the bigger picture. In the media dirty war on the way to independence the SNP will need every friend they can get, no matter how disgreeable they are. Its therefore madness for Salomond to turn his back on the one red top that has nailed its colours to independence.
The reasonable expectations of honest men must be protected.

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#328 Pat

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:45 PM

And I am saying you and Pat are failing to see the bigger picture. In the media dirty war on the way to independence the SNP will need every friend they can get, no matter how disgreeable they are. Its therefore madness for Salomond to turn his back on the one red top that has nailed its colours to independence.


I see where you are coming from, samsc, but you can be tainted by your associations. I've never been one of these people who take the view 'he(she) has been alright with me'.

And he's certainly giving all those other red tops, black tops and every other top a great opportunity to malign him.

I think he should have been more wary of nailing his colours to the Murdoch mast.
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#329 harper

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:43 PM

And I am saying you and Pat are failing to see the bigger picture. In the media dirty war on the way to independence the SNP will need every friend they can get, no matter how disgreeable they are. Its therefore madness for Salomond to turn his back on the one red top that has nailed its colours to independence.


Sam, how can you, in all seriouness, slag off the Unionists for their past press associaitons while condoning this? I really hope Alex Salmond will not stoop to any means possible to win independence. Independence has to be the best option for Scotland based on sound facts and information. I would have thought too close an association with Murdoch right now could be politically damanging?
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#330 samscafeamericain

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:13 PM

Sam, how can you, in all seriouness, slag off the Unionists for their past press associaitons while condoning this? I really hope Alex Salmond will not stoop to any means possible to win independence. Independence has to be the best option for Scotland based on sound facts and information. I would have thought too close an association with Murdoch right now could be politically damanging?



Sound facts and information; do you seriously think that is how the debate will be? This will be a dirty war, with lies, lies and spin used to put the fear of God into every Scot with a vote.

I think double standards is worth challenging particularly when there seems to be selective fits of the vapours. Beware perfidious Albion.
The reasonable expectations of honest men must be protected.

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#331 Pat

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:32 PM

Sound facts and information; do you seriously think that is how the debate will be? This will be a dirty war, with lies, lies and spin used to put the fear of God into every Scot with a vote.

I think double standards is worth challenging particularly when there seems to be selective fits of the vapours. Beware perfidious Albion.



And here comes Kennedy set on saving the Union.

http://www.heraldsco...nion.1330743852
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#332 harper

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 05:10 PM

Does Charles Kennedy have any credibility North of the Border? He seems all but forgotten in the South...

Sam, I strongly disagree that Alex Salmond should adopt the same dirty tactics as other politicians. This is the very thing that sets him apart, IMV and has earned him the great respect that is due to him. He would be a fool to get into the mire and his standing will be diminished if he does - maybe not by SUN readers but by many others who have held him in good standing. The fight for independence has not been won yet and quite frankly, if it is dependent on the SUN, as you seem to suggest by the importance you place on support from this paper, then gawd help us...:(
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#333 Pat

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 10:53 AM

This is more like it:
'THE Scottish Government has accused Westminster of failing to use its position as a major stakeholder in bailed-out banks to protect the public as two high-street lenders announced moves to hike interest rates on mortgages.'

Looks like mortgages are to be hiked despite the massive bailout they received. What the heck is going on?

"A Scottish Government spokesman said: "This is another example of the Westminster government failing to use its position as owner or major shareholder of banks to support the public interest, and Scottish ministers believe that it is time they did so...


SNP Treasury spokesman Stewart Hosie MP said: "With the base rate still incredibly low and the Bank of England engaged in hundreds of billions of pounds worth of quantitative easing, it seems absolutely ludicrous that families who are struggling with wage freezes should see their mortgages go up in these circumstances.'

http://www.heraldsco...s-jump.16922782

We need to see a bit more focus on such issues rather than all energy going into the referendum.

More and more Scottish people are losing their jobs and their homes while the bankers still pick up their big pays and bonuses. Now a hike in interest despite base rate being at a record low.
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#334 harper

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:21 AM

I am sure if the SNP stay focused on a wide range of domestic issues it can only strengthen their positon on constitutional matters. I am surprised there has not been cross party outrage on this... people are stuggling throughout the UK, even in, what is often perceived to be, the affluent South of England.
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#335 samscafeamericain

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:03 PM

This is more like it:
'THE Scottish Government has accused Westminster of failing to use its position as a major stakeholder in bailed-out banks to protect the public as two high-street lenders announced moves to hike interest rates on mortgages.'

Looks like mortgages are to be hiked despite the massive bailout they received. What the heck is going on?

"A Scottish Government spokesman said: "This is another example of the Westminster government failing to use its position as owner or major shareholder of banks to support the public interest, and Scottish ministers believe that it is time they did so...


SNP Treasury spokesman Stewart Hosie MP said: "With the base rate still incredibly low and the Bank of England engaged in hundreds of billions of pounds worth of quantitative easing, it seems absolutely ludicrous that families who are struggling with wage freezes should see their mortgages go up in these circumstances.'

http://www.heraldsco...s-jump.16922782

We need to see a bit more focus on such issues rather than all energy going into the referendum.

More and more Scottish people are losing their jobs and their homes while the bankers still pick up their big pays and bonuses. Now a hike in interest despite base rate being at a record low.


Insisting banks rebuild their capital base can only result in two things, either massive cost sutting (some of which has happened) or milking customers (which we are now seeing). The banks have no other real reason for this, the LIBOR rate is very low so its not as if its costing them above headline rates to borrow money from each other.
The reasonable expectations of honest men must be protected.

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#336 rory

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:38 PM

Insisting banks rebuild their capital base can only result in two things, either massive cost sutting (some of which has happened) or milking customers (which we are now seeing). The banks have no other real reason for this, the LIBOR rate is very low so its not as if its costing them above headline rates to borrow money from each other.

I can't say that I understand all that Sam but I do think it is disgusting that mortgage rates have to rise.

#337 Pat

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:14 PM

I can't say that I understand all that Sam but I do think it is disgusting that mortgage rates have to rise.

I don't know what's going on with the banks but sure as shooting the taxpayer, who owns 82% of RBS, probably wouldn't be too keen on the transfer of jobs to India.

"RBS, which is 82% owned by the taxpayer, defended the move, saying: "The movement of roles between coun-tries reflects the global nature of our business."

However, unions charged the bank with hypocrisy, accusing it of sacking lower-salaried staff at a time when it was awarding investment bankers massive bonuses."

http://www.heraldsco...ndia.1331003045

(I'm also putting this up in new thread Bank Talk
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#338 Pat

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:48 AM

I see Nicola Sturgeon is on a roll in today's Herald. It is worrying to think that changes in the Health Policy at Westminster could affect the NHS in Scotland. She makes this point plus blasts them about a few other matters and the Labour Party where also in her sights.

"... if we want to make sure that Tory health policies can't damage our health service in any way, we need independence."

In a hard-hitting speech, Ms Sturgeon also attacked Westminster policies which she said would hit the vulnerable badly.

She said: "Only independence can stop Westminster governments squandering our energy wealth while our older folk struggle to pay their heating bills.

"Only independence can put a stop to heartless Tory welfare reforms that will punish the vulnerable and the disabled.

"And only independence will give us the tools we need to rid Scotland of the poverty and deprivation that still scars our nation and create the jobs and opportunities that will get people off benefits, not for Tory reasons, but for the right reasons."

The Health Secretary also used her speech to attack the Labour Party as the only party resisting attempts to introduce minimum pricing for alcohol.

Holyrood will debate Stage One of the legislation on Wednesday, but Ms Sturgeon said Labour MSPs preferred "abject isolation to common sense".

http://www.heraldsco...-nhs.1331521462
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#339 Dexter St. Clair

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

Pie in the Sky.

Are we still waiting on smaller class sizes, a previous promise? Did we get an extra 1000 police officers on the beat or did they make it up with special constables.

You'd have to be as gullible as a Rangers supporter to fall for this.
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#340 harper

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:49 PM

I find this quite astonishing and I think NS is in danger of turning this campaign into a joke... :angry: The first two post article comments say it all.
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