187 replies to this topic

[Pat]

I would have imagined that it had quite a lot to do with it. Surely the sought after schools are those with heidies that are presumed to know what they are doing and teachers perceived to have considerable ability? Otherwise how do the schools gain their high ratings in the performance tables.?

Nota:

A lot of it (as huz been discussed many many many times ) huz tae dae wae parents, teechur quality, heidie leadership, ra weans themselves, local authority interest skool league tables can be manipulated by ra skools management team as well

Pat

I can't imagine that there are too many heidies unconcerned with the educational attainment of their pupils. Very odd!

Nota

Yes but it wisnae at ra tap of his priorities

Pat

I would still leave the hair colour out of the argument.

So the school league table shouldn't play an important part in considering what school you would like your child to go to?
How do you go about figuring out what is a good school?

Certainly it would seem that children whose parents are prepared to challenge decisions are at considerable advantage. There must be lots of kids whose parents accept decisions made as irrevocable or just simply don't have the confidence to challenge the school.

[ozneil]

Here word gets round fast which high schools get good results and which schools to avoid and as you can send kid to any school that will accept it the "better" schools get better (Teachers ask for transfers to them) and the worse schools get worser, sort of Darwinian theory applied to Education.

[Pat]

Here word gets round fast which high schools get good results and which schools to avoid and as you can send kid to any school that will accept it the "better" schools get better (Teachers ask for transfers to them) and the worse schools get worser, sort of Darwinian theory applied to Education.

Makes sense, Oz. Here the catchment area system seems to cause difficulties. I've often heard that Jordanhill is a very sought after area in the housing market because parents are dead keen for their kids to go to the school there. I assumed this was related to the league tables.
http://www.scottishh...eaguetable.aspx

[ozneil]

Here again schools HAVE TO accept kids from "catchment area" but other than that can pick and choose pupils.

Free buses are provided to take kids anywhere to school (may have to change buses at selected interchanges)

[rolo tomassi]

Makes sense, Oz. Here the catchment area system seems to cause difficulties. I've often heard that Jordanhill is a very sought after area in the housing market because parents are dead keen for their kids to go to the school there. I assumed this was related to the league tables.
http://www.scottishh...eaguetable.aspx

Jordanhill is an exception, Pat, not the norm. It's neither state school nor private fee-paying school (it is funded directly by the Scottish Executive) but it gets results similar to most private schools-------and so far ahead of Glasgow state schools it's frankly astonishing.

In Glasgow city, if you don't fancy your local school you're entitled to make a placing request for another of your choice. There's no guarantee of getting that place either, though many are lucky. However while you can make an admission request to Jordanhill they are extremely strict on their catchment area. And living in the catchment is no guarantee of admission either.

[rolo tomassi]

Certainly it would seem that children whose parents are prepared to challenge decisions are at considerable advantage. There must be lots of kids whose parents accept decisions made as irrevocable or just simply don't have the confidence to challenge the school.

Then again, there are plenty parents who don't actually set that much store by education.....and some kids are so far behind even in the early years of primary, what chance do they have?

I'm not sure that even the country's best teachers can produce results if a child has no support or encouragement at home. But that's just a personal view.

[maggs]

And living in the catchment is no guarantee of admission either.

I can verify that, we moved to Jordanhill when my son David was 4, he was starting high school before he was accepted, in the meantime he went to Broomhill Primary, which was an excellent schoool.

[rolo tomassi]

The exact same's happened to a few friends of mine who practically bankrupted themselves to move into the catchment area. Many of their kids ended up at Broomhill Primary as well, and speak highly of it.

When the time came to register Ms T for school, I briefly considered cheating her into Jordanhill by using my mum's address-- and the fact that me and both siblings went there---but having visited the walking-distance Kelvindale Primary I was very happy with it. Also I reckoned it would be better for her to live in the same community as most of her schoolfriends.

As for her current secondary, it's no better or worse than any of the local state secondaries. All of whom figure high in the current 'league tables'.

I just personally think kids should have the same opportunities no matter their postcode and that those living in urban areas should not have to accept a lesser education because of that particular demographic.

But call me old-fashioned

[maggs]

I just personally think kids should have the same opportunities no matter their postcode and that those living in urban areas should not have to accept a lesser education because of that particular demographic

Totally aggree with you Rolo, and can understand some of the underhand things paerents do to get their children into their school of choice. How can one school be so good and others not, is it funding, teaching, rules

[ozneil]

Totally aggree with you Rolo, and can understand some of the underhand things paerents do to get their children into their school of choice. How can one school be so good and others not, is it funding, teaching, rules

basically its the headmaster. If he is good school is good.

[notanimby]

basically its the headmaster. If he is good school is good.

Yer right Oz, although there is a very succesful seconadary skool in Greenock, the current deputy is heid is aff wae stress, ra last cuppla deputy heidies huv all benn aff wae stress, in fact at least wan of them huz won cases against ra coonsil fur ra wae they wur treated by ra heidie and ra coonsil (workplace bullyin) - ra coonsil huv continyoously covered this up and try tae hide it yet the commion denominatur of ra heidie is still in place - ra coonsil ur sh!t scared tae ven dioscipline that heidie - no even a stern word

Apparently this story is headin furra papers but nae wan wants tae end thur teechin careers by speakin on ra rekurd tae ra press - watch this space

[Pat]

Yer right Oz, although there is a very succesful seconadary skool in Greenock, the current deputy is heid is aff wae stress, ra last cuppla deputy heidies huv all benn aff wae stress, in fact at least wan of them huz won cases against ra coonsil fur ra wae they wur treated by ra heidie and ra coonsil (workplace bullyin) - ra coonsil huv continyoously covered this up and try tae hide it yet the commion denominatur of ra heidie is still in place - ra coonsil ur sh!t scared tae ven dioscipline that heidie - no even a stern word

If they've won cases against the Council then surely it follows that the heidie is disciplined?

Apparently this story is headin furra papers but nae wan wants tae end thur teechin careers by speakin on ra rekurd tae ra press - watch this space

Do you mean - you saw it here first?
Can they not be filmed incognito? You know when there is not a hope in hell that they won't be recognised but you're not supposed to know who it is.

[notanimby]

If they've won cases against the Council then surely it follows that the heidie is disciplined?

Do you mean - you saw it here first?
Can they not be filmed incognito? You know when there is not a hope in hell that they won't be recognised but you're not supposed to know who it is.

it wouldnae be hard tae figur it oot a there huv been only 3/4 deputy heidies involved................

[notanimby]

If they've won cases against the Council then surely it follows that the heidie is disciplined?


haw haw haw - good wan Pat Ineverclyde coonsil ur jist a s bad as Glesga coonsil whjen it comes tae nepotism and seein yer pals OK - this type of thing is par furra course in ra educashun dept and throo oot ra coonsil.
Ra former director of educashun fekked up on numerous high profile cases, got absolootly slated by parents and coonsilurs(opposishun) wans alike yet wiz allowed tae "retire" wae a 6 figure sum then take a job wae anithur coonsil withoot any dishiplinary action bein taked fur fekkin things up.

Ra director of community safety lied in emails tae locals, then when challenged wae ra real facts he jist sed that he wiz bein taken oota context (although ah cannae see maself how sayin ra polis asked fur sumthin tae be done when they didnae and quite willingly sae they didnae kin be misconstrood) - he never gotr so much as a slap onra wrist

Do you mean - you saw it here first?
Can they not be filmed incognito? You know when there is not a hope in hell that they won't be recognised but you're not supposed to know who it is.

[rolo tomassi]

basically its the headmaster. If he is good school is good.

I'd like to think that's true, Oz, but I'm not so sure.

In Glasgow, it's not unusual to have urban schools with 1000-1200 pupils, with wildly varying backgrounds and abilities--- and all the time severe budgetary constraints from the Council, while at the same time demanding ever higher standards across the board.

At the weans' school they've taken to cutting jotters in half horizontally and not replacing teachers who've retired or are off long-term with stress or other illnesses.

In some departments of the weans' school, such as art or tech, the imaginative ideas of pupils are restricted according to what the school can 'afford' in materials.

And because teaching staff shortages are common, we get the scenario I talked about already---composite classes where a teacher's expected to teach different levels of a subject within the one class.

Even the brightest of heidies are gonna struggle wi that lot.

[notanimby]

I'd like to think that's true, Oz, but I'm not so sure.

In Glasgow, it's not unusual to have urban schools with 1000-1200 pupils, with wildly varying backgrounds and abilities--- and all the time severe budgetary constraints from the Council, while at the same time demanding ever higher standards across the board.

At the weans' school they've taken to cutting jotters in half horizontally and not replacing teachers who've retired or are off long-term with stress or other illnesses.

In some departments of the weans' school, such as art or tech, the imaginative ideas of pupils are restricted according to what the school can 'afford' in materials.

And because teaching staff shortages are common, we get the scenario I talked about already---composite classes where a teacher's expected to teach different levels of a subject within the one class.

Even the brightest of heidies are gonna struggle wi that lot.

Imagine how ra crap and mediocre wans dae then....................but ur they bagged - of course not, they are allowed tae carry on makin an erse of it until "retirement"

[rolo tomassi]

If they've won cases against the Council then surely it follows that the heidie is disciplined?

No, it doesn't, Pat.

Anyone who's ever had to work in the confines of employment law knows that stuff such as this is carefully 'managed' from the outset. What Nota's saying is entirely correct re 'disciplinary action'.

You'll never meet an impoverished employment lawyer for that reason.
When it comes to equalities, all pigs are equal but some are more equal than others.....

[Pat]

No, it doesn't, Pat.

Anyone who's ever had to work in the confines of employment law knows that stuff such as this is carefully 'managed' from the outset. What Nota's saying is entirely correct re 'disciplinary action'.

You'll never meet an impoverished employment lawyer for that reason.
When it comes to equalities, all pigs are equal but some are more equal than others.....

I wonder if they have recourse to the Ombudsman. Where you can make a complaint against a specific officer, or perhaps this option is only open to those making an external as opposed to internal complaint?

A number of years ago when I was having extensive problems with one of the Councils, when acting on behalf of an old auntie, who had dementia, they swiftly changed their tune when I took the above approach.

I am pretty sure this option is open to any parent who is disatisfied with a response to a complaint regarding a Headteacher, if not to their colleagues.

[Pat]

Students in England could face unlimited tuition fees as an independent review calls for the current cap of £3,290 a year to be scrapped in order to allow for a 10 per cent increase in student places.

It's proposed that graduates start repayments when they earn £21,000 a year. Under the current system repayments start at £15,000.

If this goes ahead it will contravene a pledge made by all Liberal Democrat MPs, including Nick Clegg and Vince Cable, to vote against a rise in tuition fees.

Could also mean an influx of applications to Scottish universities.

http://www.newstates...review-increase