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Pat

EU Withdrawal Bill

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Meanwhile Nicholas Soames who barked when a female SNP politician stood up to speak, yesterday, shouted 'away back to Skye' when an SNP politician stood up to talk.

The 'mother of parliaments' continues to disgrace itself

  

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It is a disgrace. Watched PMQs today and Theresa May sets a very bad tone with her smirking, giggling and inability to respond appropriately to any question.  

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Ireland:- I am no expert and it is only in the last few years that I have some idea as to reason(s) for the split between De Valera and Michael Collins. But someone here wrote that the the North (Ulster) voted to remain withing the UK. I did a fair bit of reading because I had been of the opinion that The Republic paid no money for their freedom but a further reading tells me that of the seven counties in the North, five actually voted to secede; a deal was made where The Republic allowed the UK to hold onto all seven and the financial slate was wiped clean.

And as an aside: not a huge fan of Joyce, I do wish he had translated Finnigan's Wake but, I think in Dubliners there is a (eulogy maybe) which points right at Collins; beautiful piece of writing and as Morley Callaghan wrote in his "My Summer in Paris", the last part of Ulysees could have been spoken by, James' Missus.

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Tam,  the Remain vote refers to EU Withdrawal Brexit.  The Dubliners my favourite piece of writing. 

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ay Pat, i'm somewhat aware of what is going on today, just thought to mention a wee bit about a different version of the vote after the civil war.

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With you now, tam. Happy Christmas.  Two foggy days here, so almost white. 

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On 12/21/2018 at 4:13 AM, tamd said:

Ireland:- I am no expert and it is only in the last few years that I have some idea as to reason(s) for the split between De Valera and Michael Collins. But someone here wrote that the the North (Ulster) voted to remain withing the UK. I did a fair bit of reading because I had been of the opinion that The Republic paid no money for their freedom but a further reading tells me that of the seven counties in the North, five actually voted to secede; a deal was made where The Republic allowed the UK to hold onto all seven and the financial slate was wiped clean.

And as an aside: not a huge fan of Joyce, I do wish he had translated Finnigan's Wake but, I think in Dubliners there is a (eulogy maybe) which points right at Collins; beautiful piece of writing and as Morley Callaghan wrote in his "My Summer in Paris", the last part of Ulysees could have been spoken by, James' Missus.

What book were you reading that told you that Tam?

Northern Ireland consists of 6 counties and was certainly not 'sold' by the Republic to meet its share of UK debt.

The idea of excluding some or all of the 9 counties of Ulster from the provisions of the Irish Home Rule Bills had been mooted as early as 1892.  The original plan had been that the entire 9 counties of the province of Ulster would be kept British for the majority protestant community, however, three of the counties, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan.were pro the republic and they were allocated to the South.

The British Government, committed to implementing Home Rule in Ireland, set up a committee under the chairmanship of a unionist MP Walter Long.  The Long Committee recommended the establishment of two devolved administrations, dividing the island into two territories: Northern and Southern Ireland.  It was intended that each jurisdiction would be granted home rule but remain within the United Kingdom. The government of Southern Ireland never functioned: the war for independence continued until a truce was agreed in July 1921 with the forming of the Irish Free State on 6 December 1921.  A year later on 6 December 1922, it became independent of the United Kingdom. 

 

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More than an hour wandering from site to site and I will need to look at the "Long Committee" sometime later. Cannot find what I was looking for but will continue the search. Fascinating stuff and I did wander into areas which have nothing to do with the question; Daniel O'Connell was born in the eighteenth century, a wee bit before independence. Did a tiny bit of reading on Wiki; not all bad but a place one should be careful of. Britannica is safer ground and that is where I discovered the three mentioned by Sam, Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan; knew they voted for Home Rule and learned they had been part of the nine counties. Also figured that the seven I was wrong about might be because it appears that Fermanagh and Antrim became one.

The "Home Rule" bill introduced and passed by the Asquith government did have the approval of the English House of Lords (1914); however it did come with the "suspended" tag until WW1 was ended. I did read about the 1921 decision but more interesting was the Sinn Fein win with 69% of the vote in 1919. My reading says that Lloyd George would have accepted that victory but the English House of Lords would not.

The number of executions after the Easter Rebellion seemed to add to the want of self rule rather than decrease the ardor (always thought there was a u ).

Also had a review of the McPhilemy book, "The Committee" and the law suit brought about by brothers who should not have been mentioned....had no idea that one of the reasons for settling out of court was to protect Timbrel, whom I would think was still a member of the British Parliament.

Will continue my search on the weekend.

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The UK Government becomes more of a laughing stock as every day passes.  The preparations for No Deal and freight across the channel being a prime example with the awarding of contract to Seaborne Freight.  One problem being that they don't actually have any ferries, nor have they had any experience in providing such a service. 
https://news.sky.com/story/no-deal-brexit-ferry-contract-awarded-to-seaborne-freight-very-likely-unlawful-labour-claims-11602063

Apparently the two ports Ostend and Ramsgate wouldn't be ready in time to accommodate the non existent ferries. 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/seaborne-freight-port-ramsgate_uk_5c3237a7e4b0d75a9831be6a

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May's bill looks to be heading for a ragdolling today 

 

Remaining in the EU starting to emerge as the only alternative

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It really is sams. Or for Scotland definitely to leave them to it. Can't believe when watching Question Time the support for the Tories and Leave in so many places in England. Seems utterly senseless.

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Brexit starts to bite

 

Sky Sources: Japanese car-maker Nissan is cancelling plans to build its X-Trail model at its plant in Sunderland

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Sad state of affairs. 700 new jobs anticipated. Big blow for North East. 

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The lack fluidity of the backstop and the need for no border seems to be a concept that Theresa May and the Brexiteers cannot grasp or just don't care about.

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PAT: Brextic and all the ins and outs are confusing for many of us living away...it appears, TO ME, that Scotland, Northern Ireland and now Wales are opposed to exit. The thing about my including Wales is because of one Welsh MP who did challenge for the leadership of the Labour party as is not a huge supporter of Corbyn....wondering if Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland could put in a joint request to stay......solicitors from all three could become billionaires if hired to negotiate that sort of deal....

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Good plan, tam, but Wales voted Leave. Northern Irish D.U.P.  have their own issues. I think the most likely outcome is a United Ireland and an Independent Scotland. The Tories are doing the work for us.

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