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Corbyn ran a decent campaign but has still to prove cabable.  He eventually he put together a manifesto that people felt they could get behind.  As he didn't win, we can't say whether or not he was capable of delivering it.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of May, Davidson and Dugdale and the British press, I don't see Sturgeon as a victim and surely the SNP must be worried about losing so many seats, despite their overall win.   Personally, I think because the Tories were reduced to panda numbers for many years and May's unpopularity, people may have underestimated Davidson.  Whatever you think of her, she has taken down some big SNP beasts on Stugeon's watch and I don't see her letting up any time soon.  Something went very wrong in the SNP's reading of their own share of the electorate for this to happen and blaming everyone else will lead to further trouble.  If the majority of the SNP loses had defaulted to Labour I could understand the point about tactical voting to keep the Tories out but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I think we are all too aware of the threats of May's new coalition. It was impulsive and stinks of power at any price.  Maybe it will imploed, hopefully without too much damage and Corbyn will get to lead a progressive alliance; but in order to do that other leaders need to support him and not try to grandstand or undermine him.  To hear Caroline Lucas talking about refusing to go into any coalition agreement with the Tories with her 1 seat is laughable. I wasn't actually aware the Tories had asked them?  We have seen the fate of Roberston despite his claims of being the only effective opposition - well all I can say to that is ouch!  The only alternative is Labour with their share of 262 and the sooner people put their egos back in their box and get behind him the better. 

Massive demonstration in London opposing May's deal with the DUP.  Strong and stable has tuned to fighteningly unstable ...

 

 

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The tactical voting being advocated wasn't to keep the Tories out but to damage SNP.  Dugdale, the Labour Leader, happy to call for this on television.

I'm the one making the point about the power of Press Propaganda. I'm probably more obsessed by it than most as the Sociology of Media was one of the degree courses I studied at Glasgow Uni.  Not at any point has Sturgeon or any of the SNP complained about the role of the media. Sturgeon has a great deal of humility and was the first to express her sadness at losing so many SNP politicians and immediately expressed the need to go back to the drawing board. Her willingness always to accept responsibility and be accountable is an integral part of her character.

Robertson was particularly effective in challenging May. Often much stronger than Corbyn but having said that I think that PMQT is not that useful an entity for judging anything other than a certain statesmanlike ability to raise issues.  In many ways it's an embarrassment.

Nicola Sturgeon announced pre-election that she would be open to a progressive alliance with Corbyn. I think others would be too and hope we get to see it.

The biggest ego out of the box is Ruth Davidson. I wouldn't be at all surprised if May would rather have seen her disappearing than Hill. How absurd of Davidson to speak on the News about how she has been in touch with May to warn that the UK Government should not renege on Abortion Law and Same Sex Marriage as part of any deal with the DUP.  The suggestion is beyond absurd but a good headline grabber. She'll be keeping quiet about issues of bigotry. She's also come up with the idea of yet another Brexit – an Open Brexit, and need to revisit.  At odd with May'announcement of getting on with it. As usual she wasn't up for answering questions but happy to patronise the new contingent of Scottish Tory MPs – she's sending down her 'brightest and best' and May 'will take care of them.'  Dear God!

Glad London is out in force expressing their disapproval of the DUP deal.  How low can you go?

Hope we will soon see the back of May and maybe that progressive alliance. The people throughout the UK need some decency and hope.
 

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Sturgeon would do well to make her peace with Corbyn, rather than aggressively stating in interviews  that he has no credibility.  Depending on how it pans out for May, the SNP (and others) could well be kingmakers for Corbyn's party in Westminster and like the DUP the SNP could put forward their price.  No prizes for guessing what that could be. For all her intelligence, Sturgeon lacks diplomacy when it comes to securing political  allies.  

Don't know why you are concentrating on Davidson and May, it's the SNP who need to safeguard their position in the run up to the Scottish elections.  I think it wasn't so much the number of seats they lost but who they lost that was the real blow.   I don't see the disappearance of Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh as any great loss.   Good to see Ms Black re-elected, she tops the list of my son's favourite politicians. 

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Mhairi Black, Joanna Cherry or Alison Thewliss would have been worse losses than Tasmina Sheikh.  SNP won't have any major problem with Scottish Elections – they have a chance to pull Labour supporters back if greater support shown for local councils.  With SNP's Eva Bolander now in place instead of Labour at Glasgow City Council there has been a major advance.  Indy Ref 2 will be parked,, there was never an intention to have a quick referendum – as explained that was pushed forward by external issues so practically no-one in the movement is interested in pushing this.

Having said that – within SNP supporters, although not much to be seen anywhere, that Sturgeon should have pushed Independence and the benefits more forcefully.

There's also confirmation that tactical voting played a main part in the outcome of the election in Scotland.  I have a lot of admiration for John Curtice, my allotment neighbour for many years, he has emphasised the key role tactical voting by the combined Unionist anti SNP parties in Scotland played regarding the loss of SNP seats. 

There was not a single seat in Scotland where two Unionist parties took 1st and second places. In every seat ... Unionist voters somehow knew which candidates to vote for to have the best chance of getting the SNP out, as noted by Aberdeen Evening Express.

Regarding Davidson, I was following on from your reference to her and also to big egos. I am watching her antics with amusement but you have to hand it to her – she has the media in the palm of her hands. I'm hoping some of them will catch on to the utter tripe she talks. As if for one minute May could,nor would even be concerned, about promoting gay rights in NI.  But she has May's assurance that the UK Government won't agree to going backwards with laws that are unsavoury to DUP.   Well two points here – such a step would alienate vast numbers of the electorate and cause huge outcry and secondly, an assurance from May on any topic means nothing.

The new contingent of Tory private school boys going to Westminster – Davidson 'sending down her brightest and best' knowing that 'May will take care of them' must surely feel patronised by new look Mother Hen Ruth. Not that they or DUP can vote on EVEL issues  This is, of course, also the case with SNP but in reality the whole bunch of them won't fill a single sock of Salmond nor Robertson, never mind their shoes.

Wish May would just shove off.  My sister told me that the headline on her Toronto Star was MAY DAY! MAY DAY! – apt?

 

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May, may go sooner than we think.  McDonnell and Corbyn confident that they will form a minority government.  May, might have the seats but she certainly doesn't have the power.  Similarly, Davidson all over the press and not a thing about the Sturgeon.  Scottish Tories being cited as being key in securing May back in office! Scottish Tory leader being cited as wanting to ensure an Open Brexit for Scotland! The metaphorical pandas are running riot and grabbing the limelight, post election and Sturgeon is looking marginalised.  Sturgeon should have been able to see Davidson and Dugdale off.  Her handling of Brexit and indyref2 has been a monumental cock up.  I doubt Sturgeon (or Salmond) will ever deliver independence for Scotland, they are both too toxic, it's needs new vision, new blood and a new strategy.  

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If You Support Conservative Policy You Should Be Willing To Live With It.

One of the major issues in this election has been the fact that we have the SNP as the incumbent government in Holyrood. Many of the policies like the Bedroom Tax and prescription charging, university fees etc. which are charged in England and Wales but are mitigated here in Scotland by the Scottish Government.

This has ultimately led to a situation where, ironically, those of a pro-union disposition are insulated from their own stupidity and it leaves the door open for the Tories in Scotland to simultaneously claim that their woes are a result of the SNP. In essence, the Scottish Governments attempts to mitigate Tory policy have created an atmosphere of complacency where the Scottish electorate actually doesn’t feel the effects of devastating conservative policy and as a consequence, it leaves the door open for the electorate to shoot themselves in the foot.

 

The strain we are feeling on certain public services at the moment is as much about real term Tory cuts to the Scottish block grant as it is about the fact that money that should be going to the NHS and to public services is having to be pushed into mitigating the effects of what can only be described as evil austerity.

In a nutshell, people are inclined to vote conservative because they are being shielded from them by the opposition, namely the Scottish National Party. So the Scottish Governments compassion on mitigating such policies has effectively been to their own detriment. That is a ludicrous set of circumstances but eventually, the bow is going to break, the cradle is going to fall. There are only so many pounds in the piggy bank for the Scottish Government to spend and eventually, as new policies are created by the conservatives, the Scottish Government are going to reach a point where they can no longer mitigate.

The perfect demonstration of this is the child cap and rape clause on tax credits. The Tories broke it and Ruth Davidson in her usual arrogant style stood up in the Scottish Parliament and demanded that the Scottish Government mitigate it.

The dynamic between Westminster and Scottish Tories is an unusual one, in that in Westminster you have the conservatives creating socially unacceptable policies which are pushing millions into poverty, defended by their Scottish colleagues, but at the same time, the effects of such policies are then used by Ruth and Co to claim victimhood status and demand that the SNP fix it. The problem is that Scots who are ordinarily not politically active do not realise this is the case.

In essence, the Tory voters are not getting exactly what they voted for because if they were, it would wake them up to the reality of the situation.

So perhaps, while it may be a tad extreme, the solution is for those that voted Tory to get exactly what they voted for. Paid prescriptions, £9000 university fees, higher taxes, prescription fees and things like the bedroom tax. Perhaps if they got what they actually voted for and the SNP stopped playing nice, they would realise that they have made a serious mistake. Of course, the money saved in not mitigating Tory policies for their voters in Scotland could then be diverted to those who didn’t vote Tory and perhaps alleviate some strain on the Scottish budget in the process.

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15 hours ago, harper said:

May, may go sooner than we think.  McDonnell and Corbyn confident that they will form a minority government.  May, might have the seats but she certainly doesn't have the power.  Similarly, Davidson all over the press and not a thing about the Sturgeon.  Scottish Tories being cited as being key in securing May back in office! Scottish Tory leader being cited as wanting to ensure an Open Brexit for Scotland! The metaphorical pandas are running riot and grabbing the limelight, post election and Sturgeon is looking marginalised.  Sturgeon should have been able to see Davidson and Dugdale off.  Her handling of Brexit and indyref2 has been a monumental cock up.  I doubt Sturgeon (or Salmond) will ever deliver independence for Scotland, they are both too toxic, it's needs new vision, new blood and a new strategy.  

the SNP only lost 1.7% of the vote share. You'd have been locked up for suggesting prior to the election that, that would result in them losing 21 of their seats.

It's clear evidence of tactical voting in Scotland. Wonder where people got that idea from.

Sturgeon is right to sit back and let the braying Ruth get on with it.

 

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Sturgeon's best tactic is to make her peace with Corbyn.  Good to hear she is now talking about a four nation approach to Brexit...  Whoever has been advising her on PR, shoes and strategy should be oot the door. 

I think the prediction was for 40 seats but as I said, I think it has less to do with how many but who lost their seats ...

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Haven't heard anyone – not even Neil describe Sturgeon as toxic but then neither have I heard her described as 'the Sturgeon'.  She tends to be held in respect even by the journalists who are anti SNP. I think possibly the view of her in Scotland is rather different from in England. The same is true of Davidson. She lied and plotted her way to gaining additional seats. Would have been easy for Sturgeon to adopt a similar approach and hurl back insults, lies and personal abuse.  You can watch them all in action every week at First Minister's Question Time, Sturgeon doesn't lose her temper and lie.  Patrick Harvie is also professional, knowledgeable and makes his arguments and points in an intelligent manner.

I'm enjoying the catty comments about Davidso re her love of the camera by Channel 4.  Too many complaints on twitter by her constituents who apparently never see her.  I don't think her bluster and dimples are fooling everyone.  She's been invited onto Good Morning Scotland every morning since the election but whilst she loves being in the public eye she has consistently refused. She's not good on the q and a platform as unlike the First Minister – she never has the correct facts to hand.

I do think it would be excellent if SNP could get more of a grip of the press and political programmes but I'm not sure how far this is possible. Throughout the debates the SNP were hemmed in with questions designed to focus on the Unionists agenda of what was THEIR obsession with Independence and discussion of devolved issues. I watched Daily Politics today when Stephen Gethins pulled Jo Coburn up on this when she took this tack and she was smart enough to acknowledge this. 

Like samsc says SNP are in a difficult position because so much funding is spent on social justice issues to prevent suffering created by Tory policy. The last piece of legislation where they have attempted to do this is retaining Housing Benefit for young people, but for the first time they admitted that this may not be possible in the long term. Notwithstanding these actions Scotland still pays more into its NHS per head than England.

There have been criticisms suggesting that Sturgeon did not speak out enough about the Referendum – the sits alongside the argument that she pushed it too much (which is clearly a myth created by the Unionist and the Press).  I think unless you actually watch Holyrood in action on a regular basis and read the views of reputable bloggers and alternative views expressed by journalists such as Iain McWhirter and Lesley Riddoch that knowledge is gleaned from the media, who are practically wall to wall anti SNP.

From the outset she has been the one speaking about a four nation approach to Brexit.  Therein lies the rub with May.

She has also repeatedly said that she would be happy to work with Corbyn in a progressive alliance but that she did not think he would win the election.  So she got that right.

 

 

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I haven't heard Sturgeon described as "the Sturgeon" either.  If it was me it was typo:).

Actually, Sturgeon has said Corbyn had no credibility as a leader while bigging up Roberston as the only credible opposition in Westminster ...  They must screen different interviews in Scotland and England.

Davidson will meet her own fate, no doubt and May's fate seems sealed - six months then walking. 

The results speak for themselves.  The SNP won but their leader is damaged.  She couldn't present the electorate with a positon in independence that satisfied SNP supporters or assured the pro-unionists and that's her job.  Her early pronouncements on a second referendum were made straight on  the back of the Brexit results and  handed the pro-unionists a stick to beat her with.  She can hardly complain when they use it.   She may be held in high esteem but political leaders fall quickly from grace - as I am sure Salmond and Robertson have just realised - longevity counts for nothing.  As for parking independence, I think Sturgeon would fall on her sword before abandoning any idea of a second referendum.  Independence is her driving force and her tactic of going dark on it during the election campaign wasn't that convincing.

Stephen Gethins is really interesting but he won by only 2 votes.  Hardly a comfortable position.  I do wonder if he will replace Roberston at Westminster or Stugeon in due course.  Maybe the future of independence for Scotland needs a new face - someone who doesn't carry the toxicity around Salmond and Sturgeon's defeats.

 

I don't tune into the Scottish Parliament very often. The issues don't affect me. I prefer the national coverage on national issues.  I like Brillo.  He doesn't let anyone off the hook.  ...Gone off Marr since his superinjunction to conceal his affair... the cad.

I liked May's statement "I got us into this mess and I will get us out of it."  Whether she does or not remains to be seen but how refrshing to hear a politician take some responsibility for their actions.

Meanwhile, Corbyn is smiling like a Cheshire cat.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I utterly despise May. Her concern is all for her lost MPs and not for the people.  Good appointment of David Lidington anti LGBT rights as Justice Minister. Already DUP being appeased. Letting Ruth Davidson down badly.

In such a hurry is May to seal this deal she's neglected to read the small print.  Never will there have been a more powerful minor party within a hung parliament than DUP.

'Thanks to the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, “confidence votes” have been explicitly drawn to exclude votes on the Budget or the Queen’s Speech. A government only falls if it loses a vote of no confidence. It no longer falls if it loses a major vote, a Budget vote or even the Queen’s Speech.

This obviously increases the leverage of the DUP – and Labour’s ability to harry the government day-to-day. The DUP can hold the government up, by backing them in confidence votes. But they can also let them down by deserting them on essentially everything else to secure bigger concessions from the Conservative Party.

Far from being trapped by the Conservatives, the DUP have more leverage over them than a minor party has ever enjoyed in a hung parliament before.' http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/06/theres-something-everyone-has-missed-about-dup-and-fixed-term-parliaments

Yes, I heard Sturgeon make those remarks when asked the question about Corbyn. Invariably she answers truthfully and never dodges a question. Also true what she said about Robertson, he was often the one raising issues that you wished Corbyn would have addressed. Although, I have always admired Corbyn and didn't take on the national press's hype against that he was unelecable.

They're trying to do a similar job on Sturgeon. You should be more wary this time. There will be no calls for a new leader SNP. The idea is laughable.
I reckon Robertson's replacement will be Tommy Sheppard or Joanna Cherry. There is however and abundance of talent among the SNP MPs.

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Clearly London centric media is forming some very anti-SNP and anti-Nicola Sturgeon sentiment. Luckily for us up here in Scotland the blanket negativity around the SNP and independence from the unionist media has less impact; we recognise the bias. Which is why the SNP won the election by a majority in Scotland. The vote share loss was only -1.7 the large reduction in seats was in part due to tactical voting. The media story is always wide of the mark because it is designed not to describe reality but to influence it.

Given that Brexit is the most irresponsible and uninformed decision every taken by UK voters, Independence is inevitable. Saving the Scottish economy from the Brexit disaster will be the catalyst. Nicola Sturgeon has zero chance of being removed as SNP leader. Jimbo

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Word in the library is that the DUP - May deal is the toxic topic and Independence deffo on the cards. Lot of electorate supporting Indy voted Labour but hate Dugdale,  love Sturgeon, voted yes before and will do the same next time round. 

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I wouldn't expect that SNP voters would think otherwise:)  It would be interesting to hear from someone who changed their vote and why they did that.  I think opinion about Sturgeon has changed since Brexit.  I have friends in Scotland who are either strongly for her or strongly against her - all SNP supporters since we were in our teens. I haven't met anyone who is indifferent.  Some feel she lacks the gravitas and statesmanship of Salmond, others think she is the best things since milanda.   Some, who are teachers have become disenchanted. No tactical voting for them.  It was a vote for the party and their own constituency MSP.

 

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The only people I know who changed their vote voted Labour because they had been inspired by Corbyn.
According to Prof Curtice he was one of the key factors and SNP lost votes because of this factor. The conservative gains he attributes to a great extent to tactical voting and the paper candidates put forward without campaign to allow Tories to win and in a few cases Lib Dem to keep SNP out.  The youth vote – also very evident in support of Independence,was also attracted to Labour through Corbyn. 
One thing you can say for Curtice is that he is truly academic and impartial in his analysis.

"THE UK’s leading polling expert, Professor John Curtice, has said that Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s success and unionist tactical voting in Tory gains were twin factors behind the SNP’s loss of 21 MPs in the General Election."
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/11157/john-curtice-corbyn-surge-and-tactical-unionism-key-factors-behind-loss-snp-mps

Two members of my family have recently started promoted teaching posts – one made possible by extra discretionary funding now in the hands of head teachers. One of my ex-bloggers on the site, through the same funding, was offered a newly created teaching post – so as is usual with anecdotal information there are different experiences.  The other post is a peripetetic government post working with various schools to improve practice. There seems to be little acknowledgement of the vast cuts to the Scottish Budget and how this impinges on devolved issues such as Education. As samsc points out, sadly money that could go into education is being used to protect the most vulnerable, who would otherwise suffer as a result of heinous Tory policies.

Throughout the election campaign much was made of flawed statistical information, particularly by the ruthless Davidson to paint the education results in Scotland in a completely false light. Looking at a very small number of children at a particular point and highlighting failure – despite the fact that by the time the children had reached the next stage of primary – they had reached the required standard of achievement.

Similar myth I still see bandied about and have heard regularly reported on political programmes without challenge.  In particular the comparison between England and Scotland claiming that more children from deprived neighbourhoods go to University in England than in Scotland. This takes no account of the fact that a much higher proportion of children, including high numbers of children from poorer families, do not access University through UCAS  but via college courses. So in fact there has been significant narrowing of the bridge between the rich and poor going to Uni.

In fact, there has been so much happening in the bid to address education, acknowledge continually by Sturgeon as being very much needed, that just to what extent these are succeeding cannot be properly evaluated as yet.

The war cry from the Unionists was that so much attention was focused on Independence that the day job was being neglected at Holyrood. This could not be any further from the truth.   As there is no commitment to coverage of what is positive within Scottish Parliament Practice or factors that may increase support for Independence you just don't here about these:

I can give you three examples I saw today – which you can learn about if you ever look at the Scottish Government Website or online news from STV – and sometimes BBC.  You will always have to scroll down as – and I say this in all seriousness not as a cynic – the anti SNP news will always come first.  I also like to check out Oil and Gas News as you never hear the reports of positive things happening.  Holyrood, the award winning magazine also a useful source of information – and reports one a wide range of topics relating to all parties. http://www.holyrood.com/articles/news

So the good news regarding important developments in Scotland – just for today.

1.  I can actually no longer see this on STV News online but it's still on their twitter where they reported today.
"North Sea job cuts have slowed as confidence in the industry has grown, according to a new survey.

More than a third of contractors (38%) reportedly feel confident about the future; the best result since 2012.'

2.Historic bill will meet the unique needs of Scotland’s islands – introduction of important new bill for Scottish islands. 'The ‘most significant announcement’ for island communities in decades.'  You'll get it in The Oban Times but don't expect to hear about this in MSM. https://www.obantimes.co.uk/2017/06/13/historic-bill-will-meet-the-unique-needs-of-scotlands-islands/

3. Important legislation re tackling child poverty in Scotland passed first stage - 'A bill to tackle child poverty has been unanimously approved at its first stage by the Scottish Parliament. MSPs agreed to the general principles of the Child Poverty (Scotland) Bill, which will set statutory targets to reduce the number of children in poverty by 2030. It also includes a framework to monitor progress at a national and local level.
You can find out about this in Holyrood Magaizine but you won't hear about it in the News. Probably not even in Scotland unless you buy The National.

http://www.holyrood.com/articles/news

4. Today also: £1.75bn allocated to councils to invest in affordable housing

If we had an impartial press then at least in Scotland people would hear of these developments but they don't.  Their impressions, as Jimbo points out, are formed as a result of what the read, see and hear on the National News.


 

 

 

 

 

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It is not right this deal with DUP. Sectarianism is already a problem in West of Scotland. Th4e alliances that were made in the campaign for independence last time broke down a lot of barriers we do not want them built up again. Now that there is an SNP Provost in Glasgow we might see an end to of sectarian marches.l The DUP would encourage more and of course the peace deal in Ireland is and even bigger issue.

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It shows the mindset Rory that you have the Government of the UK by the short and curlies and a real chance of getting great stuff done for your area from infrastructure improvements to economic development and top of your list 'is the right for the orange order to march down the Garvaghy Road and get up the kafliks'

The only good thing from this is that it will shine a light on the DUP and people can see them for what they are

 

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SNP published the letter Foster sent to Biagi where DUP attempted to interefere with Scottish Law. They requested that marriages for gay couples should not be available to people from Northern Ireland who had already formed a civil partnership. Scottish Government published the information including letter from Foster after she denied to BBC that she had written it. 

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-arlene-fosters-letter-to-scottish-government-minister-over-samesex-marriage-35847474.html 

Exchanges between Foster and Hamilton and Scottish Government.

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/changing-civil-partnerships-registered-outwith-scotland/

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Unbelievable that the problem with fire safety is so widespread. No idea what's been going on with the safety checks. How many lives are going to be disrupted:
 

sajid david.jpg

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So one billion for DUP and Northern Ireland. Looks as though Barnett will not apply.  Think there might be a kick up.

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I read reports saying that the same materials may also have been used in other public buildings such as schools and hospitals.  (I think we've got our threads in a fankle).

Back to politics.

Slightly out the loop on this, with the local events of the last 12 days.  A Tory/DUP alliance was something I couldn't have imagined.  Politics has just become a whole lot uglier and nastier and I wouldn't have thought that possible                          

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Sorry. I think I got the threads muddles. 
 

The DUP deal is an utter mockery of democracy.  And seems despite all the cut backs to NHS and public services, benefits etc that there is a magic money tree after all.

Mundell is looking a right idiot as he promised this wouldn't happen unless there were no implications for Barnett.  We're all paying for this bribery. 

How can any group of politicians commit to voting favourably for any future bill that comes up?  Do they represent their constituents, is there to be no scrutiny?  What price a shambles of a government. It's shameful.

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Hellish. Sectarianism seems to be high on the agenda. Seen so many images of bon fires in N. Ireland loyalist areas burning allsorts of flags and images including the saltire, the Palestinian flag and racist comments against black footballers.  Sickening. But all in support of 12th July.

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