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samscafeamericain

Independence 2

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Superb march for independence today from the Botanic Gardens to George Square.  Huge numbers.

13754123_1744336205804357_13423205295621

 

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Great turn out, samsc.  I think there's a way to go but there definitely is an appetite. Meeting more and more people who voted No last time but have changed their minds.
Young and old were both out in force.  Super atmosphere in the Square.

young folk indy.jpg

pensioners for indy.jpg

bikers for indy.jpg

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With a population of approximately 5.4milion and a minoritiy ethnic population of around 4% for the whole of Scotland I should jolly well think so - Scotland has a lot to catch up on compared to other parts of the UK.

Nice pictures:) but hard to judge whether there is any real shift if polls are to be relied on... and I say if.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/30/no-real-shift-towards-scottish-independence-since-brexit-vote-poll

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Glasgow isn't representative of the whole of Scotland but it is the largest city. Police said there were 5,500 on the march then there would be more coming along to the square at different points. You got the feeling that there's still a desire for independence. Another poll in June showed 59% for.   There will be plenty more with different results depending on who's commissioning the poll I wouldn't rely on them. Good to see turnout of English for Scottish independence.  I don't think the attitude towards immigrants is only to do with numbers. Something to do with buying into racist propaganda as well.  Though I understand how the migrants and refugees can easily be made scapegoats in places where there are many and where services have been cut back to ridiculously low levels, where no social housing is available and where schools are bursting at the seams. All the leave voters where hoodwinked. The problems are still ahead.

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I think post Brexist analysis in England showed that it was the areas least affected by migration that voted leave.  London, with  one of the highest ME populations voted remain.  I think that speaks a postive attitude towards immigration, despite the pressures.

I would imagine if/when there is a second referendum support will be high and could well go YES, providing the questions of Scotand's relationship with the EU and Sterling can be addressed and oil revenue recovers.

Corbyn is a principled man who is right in so many ways but lacks any real skills to govern across the board.  

 

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Statistics and polls are a mindfield For example Scotland may have 4% overall ethnic minority population but you wouldn't think that if you lived in Govanhill or Woodlands and, of course, the ethnic minority population in Glasgow increased by 71% between 2001 and 2011. 

Totally making sense talking about the scapegoating, CL. It's easy to understand how this happens when even many in work are living in abject poverty.

I don't now what skills are required in a leader but at the moment it would appear that the worse failings any leader can have are honesty and decency.

Would be great if oil revenues recovered but even discounting income from oil Scotland does not so bad. Ninety percent of income  is from on shore activity.

Festivals in Edinburgh brought in more than the Fifa World Cub.  Whisky brings in a lot of mullah but its shown mainly as a Treasury gain.

 

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The SNP based a lot of their economic future on the basis of the oil industry and I suppose that is why the fall in prices attracts attention.  I would like to see all parts of the Union doing well.  We need a Federation - you know it makes sense.;)

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The SNP never ever said they were basing their future economy on oil. That was what the papers said. The Scottish economy isn't that different from the rest of the UK (excluding oil) – and I think the idea would be to borrow for growth not for bail outs etc.

I think a federation is a good idea but don't know how it would work in practise.

 

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"On a per capita basis, total tax revenues in Scotland are estimated to have been higher than in the UK in each year since 1980-81;"
 
"Estimated total (onshore and offshore) Scottish tax revenues were equivalent to £10,700 per person, compared to £9,000 per person for the UK. "
 
"Excluding North Sea Oil and Gas, Scotland’s Output per head is 99% of the UK average & 118% when North Sea output is included (Table 2.1, page 10)."

So more or less the same as UK without oil.  As I said.

We would be better doing our own thing. We wouldn't have Trident here and we wouldn't be included in all the massive borrowing which only benefits certain sections of society with particular values. If we are going to be in debt it should be for growth. An idea shared by Sturgeon and Corbyn.

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Most countries in the Western World have a defence spend of between 1 and 2% of GDP, Germany for instance is currently 1.2%, even the military fetish of the UK struggles to achieve 2%.....and yet the recent GERS apportioned Scotland's spend on defence at 5%...ha ha ha ha come ahead if you think you are hard enough.

 

How well defended are we :-) 

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When Ireland became independent they didn't take any proportion of UK debt.

Westminster can't have it both ways. Scotland is so poor – well that'll be under their watch then because they refuse to hand over the powers that were promised.

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Scotland can't have it both ways, either.  Hand over the powers, divide the assets and debts, end the Barnett formula.  Live in separate hooses with a garden fence across the middle.   I think England and Scotland NEED to divorce for the sake of the children.

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I don't really understand why Scotland's FM is delaying presenting a motion for a second referendum, I would have through Brexit would have created the momentum she needs ...  then I can deal with my alien status and the wean can apply for a Scottish passport. 

 

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Is their a funny sorta drive on for Britishness. Saw the shindig with Tesco taking the Saltire off their Scottish strawberries and replacing it with a Union Jack. Now I think I'm seeing them everywhere. Maybe Mundell's extra marketing staff are in cahoots with the supermarkets. Anyway I see strawberry sales at Tescos dropping in Glesga.

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Lidl, being German, has no problem putting the saltire on just about everything

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Morrisons has a section promoting Scottish Fare and I got a leaflet with all the details through my door.

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I got that leaflet too, rory, but don't get too excited.  There is a section in Morrisons with Scottish Fare. In the Partick branch it's in the aisle behind the one with lots of Union Jacks.  I've never seen so many of them. It seemed to follow on from the Olympic Great Britain success so maybe trying to build on that rather than a sinister drive to push British Nationalism.

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Fantastic turn out and sight on Sunday with the 'YesBikers' rally in Glasgow Green and numerous pro-independence events up and down the country 

http://www.thenational.scot/politics/rally-cry-to-reboot-the-yes-campaign-as-thousands-gather-on-glasgow-green.22569

 

Alex Salmond turning up as a surprise guest at the 'women for independence' rally in St Luke's was a show-stopper

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Lesley Riddoch always on the button:"Lesley Riddoch's on the button regarding IndyRef2
'Business as usual has gone for good. The genie is out of the bottle. Scots know they form a distinctive national bloc within the UK in political and cultural terms. They know Scots broadly favour a social democratic model where the market is part of society and they know the vast bulk of rUK prefers things the other way round.'

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/lesley-riddoch-confidence-will-win-or-lose-indyref2-1-4233609

I think the point she makes about Ruth Davidson being the choice for any new Better Together Campaign would be so good for the case for Independence.  Despite the fact that the Tories are now the Opposition in Scotland, and no more, aligning anti Indy with the Conservatives would hardly be a wise choice.

Mr Smoothie Cameron was probably not so off putting for some as Mrs Nasty Party May. 

I don't think many people in Scotland think that Hinkley Point and Selectivity in Schools is the way to go.

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Looks as though May and Sturgeon are clashing:  The Herald today.

"

NICOLA Sturgeon and Theresa May are on a collision course over independence after taking up seemingly irreconcilable positions on a second referendum.

After Ms Sturgeon said it was “inconceivable” that Westminster would block a vote, Downing Street said the 2014 result was “decisive” and it was “vital” it was respected for a generation.

Former SNP justice secretary Kenny MacAskill warned Mrs May might block a referendum, saying she could simply tell the First Minister: “No, you’re not getting it.”

The stand-off follows Ms Sturgeon saying on Thursday that she would publish a draft referendum bill for consultation next week, and warning Mrs May she would go to the country unless Holyrood secures sweeping new powers as part of a deal on Brexit.

However the bill depends on Westminster devolving temporary powers to Holyrood to make the referendum legally watertight, as happened before the 2014 vote.

Scottish Tories’ leader Ruth Davidson has warned refusal would provoke a backlash and boost the independence case, as happened in Catalonia when Madrid blocked a vote on autonomy.

But the Prime Minister’s official spokeswoman last night sent the strongest signal yet that Westminster could refuse regardless.

She said: “There was a referendum in 2014 that addressed this issue that was legal and fair. The result was decisive and both parties agreed at the time to respect it. It was a referendum that was once in a generation and it’s vital it should be respected.”

A generation is commonly defined as around 20 years.

Ms Sturgeon will take a defiant stance in her closing speech to the SNP conference in Glasgow today by setting out a four-point plan to expand Scotland’s trade in Europe, including permanent representation in Berlin and a doubling of trade and investment staff in the EU.

She will say: “Make no mistake, the growth of our economy right now is threatened not just by the prospect of losing our place in the single market, disastrous though that would be.

“It is also the deeply damaging, and utterly shameful, message that the Tories’ rhetoric about foreign workers is sending. More than ever, we need to tell our European friends that Scotland is open for business.”

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